Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Questions re 1974 150L

Hi all. First time post and first time plane buyer (unless you count the experimental I'm [ostensibly] building]).
Hoping you might answer a few questions I have about one 150L in particular and about 150s in general...

Looking at this 1974 150L on Controller: 1974 150L - IFR equipped [controller.com]

Additional info from seller:

• The plane is used frequently for short flights. 20 min flights twice a day approx 3 times a week, with 2 to 2.3 hour flight twice a month.
• Reman was by Continental in 1997.
• Logs are complete.
• There was minor damage in 1984. A student apparently bent the wing.

Photos show a nice looking plane with good P&I.

So... What do you think of the asking price, given the hours and time since reman (1225 hours, 10 years) and above average airframe hours?
He's asking $25,500.
My quote from Aeroprice.com came back at $17,400. Engine value and avionics value adjustments canceled each other out; airframe value adjustment took a hit; base plane (standard, basic avionics) value was given as $17,800.

What might I expect to need to do to the engine over the next few years (assume flight 2x per week, 100 hours per year)? (yeah, I know it's all a guess)

I also have a couple more general questions... (bear with me)

I seem to be living amongst a bunch of Lycoming fanatics. How can I blunt their arguments against the Continental? (pros/cons of each)

Why is the O-200 TBO so low compared to the Lycoming O-235?

Thanks for your help.
I'm already learning a lot, scouring the site and forum.

-liz

Elizabeth,

Welcome to 150-152 club.

Three years ago when I decided to buy an airplane, I knew nothing about what to look for, so I found a mechanic that several people recommended, then he put me in touch with a experienced FBO and pilot who helped with the search -- I paid him some big bucks.

The first plane had damage history, the second one looked like a winner, but a title search showed a lien against it, the third appeared to have work done almost every week according to the log books. The plane was possessed by the devil, or so the owner frankly stated considering how it never seemed to fly without work needing to be done. Finally we settled on a plane that happened to turn out to be an IFR equipped Cessna 150G former float plane with a 150 hp Lycoming 320 engine and a few other extras for a very reasonable price.

Some rules of thumb I think I would follow if I were buying any airplane. Take the simplest step first (looking at logbooks) and then proceed to the next step if it passes muster.

Find a mechanic you trust, be willing to pay him to look at the log books (these can be copies or scanned or photos of the pages) and if they are available other paperwork such as receipts for items installed on the plane.

Talk to other people about the plane such as its current mechanic or previous owner.

Arrange for a test flight. Would you and your passenger be comfortable flying in the plane? In my case, and my wife’s too, despite a poor interior and exterior we were impressed with the sound of the engine and the lack of vibration. The mechanic confirmed all compression was 74/80 or better (and then explained to me that that was good.) My mechanic, not the owner’s, did a full annual inspection as a condition of the purchase.

Ask yourself your primary purpose or use of the plane and can it do what you want it to do?

Here is something a lot of people do not realize. The answer to the question “Did you get a good deal” cannot be answered until you have flown the plane for several years. If it requires a minimum of work and doesn’t let you down, then you got a good deal, even if you paid three or four thousand more than a similar airplane. If it requires a lot of work or you find yourself uncomfortable flying over areas without emergency landing sites, then it was not a good deal even if it cost three or four thousand less than a similar airplane.

That seems like very sage advice.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply and welcome.

I'm quite confident in the 150/152 for my mission requirements. I've been spending quite a bit of time in rental 152s since getting my certificate - have only once had need for a larger plane. (As for aerobatics... well, that's another story.) Just unsure as to the differences between the 150 and 152 and trying to ascertain a reasonable price.

Liz,

This is what I wrote to another member recently about the difference between the 150 and 152:

"The 152s came out in 1978. Late-model 150s (1975 and up, I think) have pretty much the same airframe as 152s, but the engine and electrical system of them are different. The 150s have a Continental O-200 engine, 100hp, 1800 hrs TBO, 12V electrical system, maximum 40-degree of flap. The 152s have a Lycoming O-235 engine, 110hp, 2400 hrs TBO, 24V electrical system, max 30-degree of flap. Although they both have 26-gal tanks, the 150 has 22.5 gals of usable fuel vs 24 gals in the 152 (which has more pickup points in the tanks). The Continental engine is more prone to carb icing and stuck exhaust valve. The Lycoming engine has problem with lead in the lower plugs. The Continental has starter and generator that are integrated into the engine. When their gear teeth fail, the pieces fall into the engine and require a tear down. The Lycoming uses external starter and alternator. No problems when they fail.
Many differences like that.

The 152s often has more total time than the 150s, even though they're newer. The reason is that the flight schools used to fly their 150s for several years then sold them and replaced them with a newer 150. When Cessna stopped making 152s in 1985, the flight schoold don't have anything to replace them with, so they keep flying them and racking up the total time. Most 150s have between 4000-6000 hrs Total Airframe (TTAF). Most 152s have at least 6000 hrs TTAF. Mine has about 9500 now."

Hope that helps somewhat.

Liz

Welcome to the club - the advice you will get here is fantastic.

You should get Mike Arman's fantastic book on the 150/152 - worth every penny if you are even considering owning.

Again - welcome aboard!!

Hung - thanks for the info; didn't know that about the O-200 starter and generator...ouch.

Robbie - thanks for the welcome. I ordered the book when I joined - thought, heck, I oughta have this even if I just continue renting.

(I can see this is going to be a nice place to hang out. )

Liz,

This will turn out to me the understatement of the year.

Welcome aboard - anything and everything regarding our beloved 150/152's (and a little bit more) can be found here. You've hit the Motherload....so to speak.


Jim

The asking price seems a bit high, as you indicated in your post, for the airframe TT and engine hrs.( IMHO)
There are many more lower time planes out there with more reasonable asking prices. The fact that the engine was a factory reman is actually not a reason to ask more on the price, it just means that some "mechanic' didn't overhaul it out of the trunk of his car. Around 1200 hrs is where 0-200's need cylinder work, USUALLY, so it's possible it may require some top end work to get it to TBO.Figure at least $800 a cylinder to fix including labor. I wouldn't worry about the damage, as that was over 12 or so years ago. The avionics don't excite me, the KNS80 is not a GPS- it's RNAV, and in my opinion it's as dated as LORAN. I'd be much, much happier with a newer GPS unit. Look what used KNS80's are going for on eBay and such, not that much, as no one wants them anymore, same as LORAN. The paint is 10 years old- was plane hangared or tied outside? What do you want the plane for? and what drew you to this one? Are you looking for a time builder? or a plane you'll have for a long time? Consider the possibility that you buy it, fly a hundred or so hrs and then have to sell it for whatever reason. Do you think you would get what you paid for it? Would it appreciate in value? Or would you take a huge loss? You have to consider all these options- perhaps a basic VFR plane would be better, and you could upgrade the avionics to your needs. A better choice could be an older 150, mid-time engine with a recent "top" overhaul, that you could fly for at least 200-300 hrs, and save a substantial sum over renting. Which ever plane you decide on, make sure you do a thorough inspection, and if the seller wants a ton of money, there are many, many other planes for sale out there. Good luck, and welcome to the 150-152 club.

Brian,

Thank you for taking the time to review the plane. I appreciate the input on what to expect of 1200-hr engine.

I am, indeed, looking for a timebuilder. Would like to complete ratings through CFII, so basic IFR capes are a must; GPS is barely a nice-to-have as I have a handheld that serves me well.

I am not necessarily looking to "keep" the plane (although, I *could* end up using it for freelance instruction; or, maybe it'd just be a nice addition to the fleet, once I have my acro plane ;)). So, your point about the mid-time engine is well taken - wouldn't want to try to turn the plane once it's totally run-out.

Liz,

Just a suggestion. If you let the group know your general location, they will go out of their way to be on the lookout for a plane for you. These fine folks have even gone out of their way to go look at a plane that is maybe a tad remote for you, thus opening up your horizons a bit.

Further....I know of at least one occassion where a club member delivered a distant airplane from Texas to Oregon...just for the fun of it. Although that flight proved to be very expensive for the Texan. It was a 150/150.....'nuf said.