Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes High Airframe Hours ?

Hi, I've looked at a 1977 C-152 that had 10,500 TTAF about 2000hrs since the last major overhaul and a damage history in 1982 Emergency landing , ran into a fence and nosed over "substantial damage". The guy wanted 20000 for it, the mechanic said it was in good condition. My friend said with that many hours he wouldn't buy it for 15000. What do you guys think? I'm a student pilot with about 20 hrs so I really don't know a whole lot about this stuff.

Thanks,

John

If that were, say, a piper Tomahawk I'd throw it away. Useless after 11,000 hours.

Now, Cessna 150s and 152s are much much better airplanes. No hour restrictions at all. 10,500 hours is not a big deal. Damage history isn't either. It's obviously flown in the past 25 years since the emergency landing, wouldn't bad repairs rear their ugly head by now (YES!).

The only deal on this is the relatively high time engine, which I still wouldn't have an issue with as the O-235 is bulletproof and constantly makes it WELL past TBO.

Do you think metal fatigue could be an issue with that many hours?

John,

Welcome to the club.

The questions you ask are very valid, and yes, it is my opinion that 20000 is way too much for that plane.

1977 Cessna 152
10500 TTAF
2000 SMOH
It's been over on its back and damaged substantially?

Yep, the high time itself isn't a deal breaker. My 150/150 taildragger has 14000 plus hours. And it, too had nose damage. So much that they didn't put the nosewheel back on.

That engine has, provided it's put together with 100 percent genuine Lycoming parts, a 2400 hour TBO. O-235's are a good engine, but require attention to the details during periodic maintenance. Figure an overhaul to come out around 12-16 thousand dollars. If you overhauled the engine, you'd still have a 10500 hour airframe, damage history (which is a subject for heated debate for the fine folks here), and, say, 35000 invested...and that's for a stock plane with high time... Look elsewhere. There are nice planes out there, waaaayyy nicer than this one.

Even if this one had a spectacular new 10000 paint job, I'd say "see ya down the road". For 25000, you can get a very nice plane.

Back to your original concerns, the high time, in itself, is not a problem as long as the airframe has been taken care of. The engine being at 2000 is high, but, there again, not that bad of a concern. The fact that it flipped over and probably dinged up the engine, prop, spinner, engine mount/nose gear, vertical stabilizer, and wing tips. If those were properly repaired, structurally, it is as good as new. But, damage history (or more importantly, the words themselves) is like picking a piece of candy up off the floor. It still tastes good, but the stigma that goes along with it makes you look around before you pick it up to see if anyone is watching.

When you add up the high engine time, the high airframe time, and the potential for problems due to a hard life, you would be well served to walk away, and look elsewhere. If you bought it for 15000 dollars, you could probably sell it again for 15000 dollars, even if you put another 200 hours on it. But, it's one heck of a gamble.

Good luck with your search for a plane, John.

The high airframe time would not bother me at all. Nor the damage history, (It has been flying since 1982 so obviously things were fixed properly.) That 2000 hours on the engine is getting up there, but still 400 hours until just recommended overhaul. And the engine still should go through at least one more top overhaul before a major is required. So no major red flags in my book if it passes a good annual inspection by a mechanic that YOU know and trust. Though, I think I would try to dicker the seller down a couple thousand........

For my 2 bits worth,, the airframe time isn't a concern,, The engine time, personnaly I'd want a lower time engine,, unless the dollars reflect the hours,, The damage history,, if done just lately,, I'd be probably looking somewhere's else,, history from 20 to 30 yrs ago,, wouldn't bother me, I'd have my mechanic check it out to ensure it was done as per repairs manuals,, and if done correctly,, I say to myself that in a way, maybe not a bad thing,, Just think,, some of the airframe parts,, are newer then the age of the aircraft. Fast forward to this forum in 10 years time,, by that time there will probably a lot more in the 10 to 15 thousand hour range,, I bet that more will say,, 10,000 hrs,, not a bad airframe time. As in all cases,, dollars reflect the value of the plane. Sellers need to understand this well. Put 2 planes side by side,, both same paint, same engine time,, same year, but 1 has 2500 hours, the other has 7500 hours,, you know which one everyone is going to look at. So sellers need to realize that. The one suggestion that someone gave you that they wouldn't even pay $15,000 for it,, well without seeing what were talking about,, someones out to lunch.

I bought my '80 152 in March 2001. At that time, it had 9000 TTAF and 2000 SMOH. The seller asked $20K; I offered $19K and he accepted it on the spot. I guess I could've talked it down a little more. But I used to rent it in the previous 6 years and I know it's a good plane, so I didn't haggle too hard. My plane now has over 9400 TTAF and the engine is 30 hours past TBO. Still running trouble-free.

Try talking the price down. I think you probably can get it for $17K-$18K.

Two years ago I bought my 80" 152. It had about 13,000 hrs on the airframe and 2,000 on the engine. It was owned most of its life by a flight school where I also trained. All control rigging was replaced around 12,000 hrs. In talking with the chief mechanic, he felt that there was no need to replace the cables, after inspecting the old rigging after the job was completed. I have done 2 owner assisted annuals on the plane and there is no concern about the airframe hrs. I paid $20,000 for the plane. It was hangared all its life. A good soure for information is to go to the AOPA website and do an aircraft valuation.
Jim Hatzenbeller (6125B)

As you've heard here, John, the issues you're concerned about don't raise any red flags individually. Anyone familiar with 152's knows there's nothing that can't be properly repaired on them, and there are no metal fatique issues with 150's or 152's. However, collectively, $20k is too much to pay for these issues, especially since at some point you will likely want to sell the plane for whatever reason. Most of your future prospective buyers won't even consider buying this plane for the same reasons you're questioning them now. Most of us are prepared to take a hit at resale time, but with the issues this plane has, you will have to wait much longer to find a buyer, and may have to take a much bigger hit, especially as the engine reaches TBO and beyond.

Short story? There are much better deals out there for very little more money! Regardless of inflated valuation on a few websites, there are beautiful 152's out there with half the times for $25K and less, if you're patient enough to keep looking.

Also, don't limit yourself to 152s. 150s are mighty fine airplanes and are usually found with lower time AND much cheaper.