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Welcome to the club. I did my flight training at Macguire AFB aeroclub. Logged a LOT of landings at N14! That was quite a few years ago. Used to take my son there for hot chocolate at the restaurant on the field. Good luck with your new 150. These little airplanes reallly grow on you! See you around.

I just got back from a conversation with my mechanic about the plane. A quote from one person there was "if you aren't paying anything for it you paid the right price" and another stated "every hour you get from the plane is a blessing." The mechanic just stated "I recommend you walk away from this plane."

Apparently the engine data plate is missing rather crucial information (like the entire data plate -- it's there, it's just nobody stamped anything on it). No big deal, it needs an overhaul anyway because if it weren't for leaks the engine wouldn't have gotten enough air to run (i.e. ADs not complied for the air filter). However, I doubt we would get any decent core deposit back for an engine that has been tampered with (no wonder the log book has zero time from someone other than the manufacturer). Furthermore, the safety wires on almost everything external (including the prop) are the wrong size, not tight enough, etc. Then there is an issue of the lawn tractor battery and non-aviation-grade wiring that is corroding all over the inside of the cowling. Oh, and by the way, nobody yet knows what the "carb heat" control does because it obviously doesn't control the carb heat (the knob to the right of the "carb heat" control is the one that is connected to the carb heat, which makes sense because you would be sitting in the left seat, so the angle from where you view the control . . . oh, forget it, it is messed up for no good reason). And the Hobbs -- it shows the aircraft has 1700+ hours when the logs are in the 2400+ range. It also doesn't work, neither does the engine tachometer.

So much for the excitement, I think I will now return to my regularly scheduled helicopter lessons. At least the mechanics who work on them are perfectionists about what counts. Maybe when the financial situation gets better we might look again for a Cessna (now that I have a library of the service and parts manuals, ADs, SBs, etc.).

Rudy

Congratulations, Rudy!

No sir, I'm not being a smart ^$$! Congratulations are in order on your aforethought to have a good pre-buy inspection performed. You just saved yourself a lot of money and headaches, no doubt.

You've gotten your feet wet! Now you can wade through anything, and the right bird will come along!

By the way, would you care to share the what and where on this bird? Might save someone else the trouble!

I'm dying to know,, and the owner comments regarding the problems found?

The hobbs and tach not matching the aircraft times isn't anything to worry about. I have never been in an airplane with a "correct" hobbs time, and I haven't been in many airplanes with a matching tach time.

The aircraft is N8884S, currently located at Flying W (for inspection) but based at Cross Keys Airport. I presume it will make the trip back there, but only legally if it has a ferry permit. The good news is it's not heavily modified (no significant damage history, minimal 337s filed, a lot of factory-original parts). It's a major "fixer-upper." I would love to say we had the resources to sink into fixing things (and everything seems to be remediable if you "throw a bucket of money at it" as my father-in-law says -- except a crack at the firewall that would be a challenge to fix without creating a whole new set of problems).

If anyone would like information about the owner or more information regarding the pre-buy (not a complete inspection because they stopped after finding so many problems) I can send it by e-mail once I receive the report.

I am at the point now when I almost feel bad for the aircraft and the seller. I feel bad for the aircraft because it has been so abused over the years when it is a lower-time airframe (or maybe two airframes thrown together with the rear data plate issue found, and even lower-time when you look at the reading on the nonfunctional Hobbs). I feel bad for the seller because if he is honorable in disclosing the aircraft's faults he will need to admit that the "equity" he wants to get back out of the aircraft does not in fact exist unless he sells it for parts. It just seems like a cruel ending to the story of an aircraft that, unlike many, was never abused as a trainer in its youth only to suffer terribly from neglect in its older years, and maybe to become an "organ donor" due to no fault of its own.

Rudy

I feel badly for you Rudy.

I think it's interesting that you feel (as many of us likely would feel) badly for the aircraft.

I don't feel bad for the seller at all. I've only been looking for a month or so...yet I've spoken to way too many people that have flown for free, and wish to cash out on their now "fixer upper" airplane for someone else to invest in.

Rudy,, I don't know as I would feel to badly for the owner, it's unfortunate that there are so many planes out there that get badly neglected,, Im sure we've all seen them sitting, paint baking away, never to see much use. After several years, the owner wants to sell and has unresonable expectations. The one I feel sorry for is yourself,, hopefully it didn't cost you to much to learn that this was just a "drive by" or should I say "fly by". Chin up, and there are nice ones out there,, one with your name on it,,,

I sent the following to the aircraft seller:

After discussing the situation at length with Mort's mechanics, I would like the two of us to be there when Mort points out the deficiencies he has uncovered. Amy and I entered into this agreement in good faith with the understanding that the aircraft had all ADs complied (untrue), was well maintained (untrue), and had a mid-time engine (true, but significant damage/ pitting was noted on borescope exam and a major overhaul is recommended due to deteriorated gaskets, piston condition, etc.). After talking with you at length I do believe you represented the aircraft as you believed it to be, as evidenced by your willingness to give us a test flight and to fly it to Flying W. From what has been uncovered on inspection, I believe you have been grossly deceived by your mechanic, and I honestly would recommend advising the FAA of his actions (and inactions). Mort and his employees are still working on the report of the inspection, which may be helpful if you pursue action against your mechanic. The improper rigging of the flight controls shows, according to Mort's staff, that he probably did not even look into the tailcone on the annuals (or if he looked he ignored the proper rigging of said controls). He also was incapable of running safety wires correctly as evidenced by the wrong size wires used and the lack of safety wires at certain places. Furthermore, they replaced one of the safety wires on the prop because it was so loose they felt it to be dangerous (once again, I strongly advise that we both look at this with Mort). Amy and I had both agreed that we were willing to go so far with maintenance, and replacing safety wires and rigging controls is more than reasonable. However, an engine that is a short and unknown duration away from a potential catastrophic failure and/ or major overhaul is beyond our comfort zone. In addition, with the deficiencies on the data plate of the engine I am not sure there would even be a refund of the core deposit for returning the current engine (quoted as $6500 above and beyond the overhaul cost). Plus, one magneto failed the check during run-up, the carb leaks terribly, the exhaust brackets are broken, and many other issues.

You yourself have said that aviation is terribly unforgiving, and I agree. I need to trust my wife's life to any aircraft we purchase. To me, that means squeaky clean ADs and all Service Bulletins complied too. Her life is worth nothing less, and I am sure she feels the same about mine. I trust the helicopters I fly. I trust the mechanics who repair them. I trust Mort. I do not trust 84S in her current condition.

At this point, after personally looking at the deficiencies noted, Amy and I are in agreement that we cannot complete this transaction with the aircraft in this condition. Furthermore, the cost to remedy the situation would most likely be greater than the price we have agreed as the purchase price of the aircraft, making it a bad financial decision for all three of us. If you only knew the look in Amy's eyes when we were driving home after our agreement on this purchase, you would know the heartache and pain it causes for me to say this: 84S is probably worth more as salvage than as an airplane. I thought she might be a diamond in the rough, and maybe to someone she will be, but right now she looks like either a death trap or a money pit.

I spent a portion of today at the Hackettstown airport looking around as I plan to do a cross-country with a stop there, and I grieve for general aviation. I saw aircraft after aircraft that had been abandoned, sitting on an essentially abandoned airfield, left to rot tied down in a small grass plot, some being cannibalized for control surfaces or engines. I feel terrible that right now we do not have the financial resources to restore 84S to her former glory. I would hate to see her suffer the same fate as other 150s I saw earlier today, but I have to admit that we are powerless in this situation. Restoring her would have to be a labor of love, as it would be a terrible business decision, and although Amy and I both have enough love and sweat for the job, at least for the next six months we are tremendously short on the money for that size of a project.

As agreed, we will pay for the labor costs for the inspection to this point. However, we will have to leave to you any costs associated with repairs (none have been done except for the one safety wire on the prop, and that is on us). I would strongly discourage you from obtaining a ferry permit. You know airplanes much better than I, but risk and benefit, life and death is my job. If I were you, I would value my life too much to fly 84S in this condition.

An honest opinion, Rudolph? (I apologize for the mispelling with the previous posting!) You definitely were in the right telling the owner what was found and the reasons for your not wanting to pursue this transaction. But that is where you should have left it. To include commentary's such as "........... but right now she looks like either a death trap or a money pit." or. "I would strongly discourage you from obtaining a ferry permit. You know airplanes much better than I, but risk and benefit, life and death is my job. If I were you, I would value my life too much to fly 84S in this condition." are stepping over the line. I think that you have done yourself more harm then good by posting this here. For, now even if I had the perfect airplane to present to you for sale, I would be very hesitant to do so.

Just my very personal opinion! Maybe I am just offended to easily?