Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Finding the right one seems overwelming

Bill & Kirk,
I have just about come to that conclusion. I've been stressed out trying to get a plane found before my wife and I get started on these lessons. Not that we won't still be actively looking, I'm just going to relax a little bit and rent a plane for 10-20 hours. Take the pressure off a little.
Something that reinforced this decision was a series of private e-mails from another member who has been concerned about me jumping the gun and making a hasty decision that would either be costly or I might regret if we wash out due to loss of interest, complexity, etc. Although I don't think that will happen, his cautious (and prudent) approach to buying a plane is most certianly based upon many examples of people he has observed that are just like me and my wife who also had the best of intentions, but washed out for one reason or another.
What helped me (I say me because this morning my wife said "isn't that what{talking about renting}I've been saying all along" [boy, shouldn't I have known that was coming ])make that decision was when I learned this past week that the previously mentioned 150 with the nice King avionics package was also for rent.
The plane is owned by a guy who owns a prop shop about 45 miles away. He said I could keep it at our local airport about 8 miles from here. Question: is $40/hr. dry a reasonable rate?
Heck, who knows, in the end things may work out and that might be the plane for us. Total time on it is average and time SMOH is about mid time.
Don't get me wrong, I've still got the itch pretty bad to buy our own plane, it's just now I'm not having fever with those fits.
Still looking in Ar
Rusty

From a purely economic point-of-view, renting is cheaper than owning. So don't feel like you're wasting money renting a plane during your lessons. In addition to learning to fly, you'll also be learning about airplanes. This will make you a more discriminating buyer - you'll know better what you like and don't like about an airplane's condition, equipment, handling, performance, etc.

I didn't buy an airplane until after I got my license. Looking back, trying to learn to fly and learn to own would've been a daunting task. Not to say it can't be done - some people buy a plane and learn to fly in it successfully. Others get their PPL in 40 hours. I'm not one of those people.

Renting (for me) was not a problem when learning to fly. Lessons were scheduled weeks in advance. I knew what I wanted to do and when to do it.

After getting my license, renting no longer worked for me. I didn't know weeks in advance that it would be a nice day to fly my girlfriend to Nantucket for lunch. So owning afforded me the flexibility and freedom I desired from being a pilot. The expense was greater, but worth it to me.

But back to you - the both of you should concentrate on getting your licenses first. There's a lot to learn and agonizing over which plane to buy, or how expensive the repair will be to the one you bought will be distracting.

After you get your license, you may find that a 150 is not the plane for you, that a 172 or something bigger is really what you had in mind.

Or, you may find that the 150 you've been renting all along is exactly what you need, and why did I wait so long? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Who knows? While getting your license the right airplane may come to your airport for a visit with a "For Sale" sign in the window. Sometimes you find the best things when you stop looking.

I think it's a fair rate. The last time I rented a 152 was in 2000, and the wet rate was $55/hr. At 6 gals/hr and around $3/gal for 100LL, your wet rate is $58. Ask the owner who pays for oil ($5 per quart).

If you're going to rent, I recommend you get renter's insurance. The cost is around $100/year thru AVEMCO. The insurance covers your liabilities in case of damages to other people and/or planes, as well as the deductible for the plane you're renting.

Boy, this has become one long (and interesting) thread!

I agree with Kirk! With limited funds and free time, and recurring back problems, it took me several years and several instructors to finally get my SEL. Owning an aircraft would have further depleted my time and money. At one point I even gave up on flying! Renting taught me a lot about what to look for in an aircraft, and the difference between what I needed and what I wanted.

The idea that you can save a lot of money during training by owning your own aircraft is in most cases false. Renters share the cost of "ownership" with everyone else who rents that aircraft, so you only pay for the time you need (at competitive rates, too!). Owners pay the total cost of initial investment, maintenance, inspections, tie-down fees, insurance, taxes, upgrades, .... and the list goes on! There's nothing competitive about it .... the cost is yours!

Many of the arguments for owning your training aircraft pertain to "knowing" the aircraft. If scheduled far enough in advance, I've found I can rent an aircraft I know for nearly every flight. I still rent the same 172 for occasional cross country flights, when I need more useful load.

Renters don't pay when they can't fly. Owners do pay when they can't fly, even if for months or years. The expense, not the investment, was unjustifiable for me, until I was lucky enough to find my retirement home with hangar and runway (that's another thread). N6184G is costing me nothing while waiting patiently in my hangar.

Owning an aircraft is a luxury for most of us, not a necessity, and must be viewed in this light. I suggest you be content to rent for the time being, without the anxiety of shopping, and get your licenses. When the right plane comes along (it will), buy it! To paraphrase Kirk, sometimes you find what you're looking for only after you quit looking!

Carl

I would have to agree... Here's my version.

After getting my ticket about 4 years ago I wanted to own, mainly for convenience. I was driving a $30k+ truck and downsized to a more affordable truck to free up some money for playing. I didn't think I could afford a certificated plane and started building an RV7A. After completing the empennage kit I realized I was spending more time building than flying, and couldn't afford to do both. I looked at a few 150/152s as well as Cherokee 140s, but didn't find what I wanted and could afford. I stopped looking online and at the mags and rented when I had to fly. On the way to meet a friend for dinner at his fly-in community I noticed a ragged out 150 and stopped and gave it a quick look. Before we left for dinner we went down to the community mail area to pick up his mail (conveniently this is where the 150 was located.) We went over and checked out the little bird and it had lots of new equipment, but had been sitting for a LONG time (and damage history I found later.) My friend asked if I really wanted to buy a little 150, and if so, his neighbor had one stored in the back of his hangar behind his other planes. We stopped to check it out and I was surpised to find this pretty little plane for the same price as the ragged one. I made an appointment to come back the next day and look a little closer. After spending a couple of hours looking at the logs, checking compression (hot & cold) and going for a test flight with his wife, I was hooked.

I wasn't looking, but tripped over this plane. After all was said and done, I now have a smaller truck and a very nice 150 instead of a large truck.

Keep your eyes open while you're renting, check the boards at each of the airports you stop at, and talk to your friends. You'll eventually find one you'll love.

I have always been of the belief that everybody should purchase their own airplane and then learn how to fly. Most people at first observation think that this idea is insane. However, most of the general public have no idea of the investment potential that the right airplane has to offer. They also don't have access to someone who is capable of looking out for their best interest when planning a purchase. My Dad actually made money by purchasing his own airplane, getting his private license, and then selling the airplane when he was finished for a profit. He didn't actually set out to do that, but quickly realized that it was indeed possible. He took the profit from the airplane and applied it toward the purchase of a bigger, nicer, airplane. Can it still be done today ? Sure it can. Can anybody do it ? Well, that depends on the individual.

I believe people should have things they want, and if you want an airplane (and truly want one) I'd say by all means go for it. It'll take a while to find what you want, but its out there - one that's just for you.

In the meantime, there's flying to be done and you need to get to it. There's airplanes for rent vertually everywhere, but I've noticed one thing nobodys mentioned on this thread so far and that's a lease. You might want to consider leasing an airplane as a possible option to take care of your airplane requirement until you find the one you want to purchase. There's not as many airplanes available for lease as there is for hourly rent, but they're still out there none the less. For a person like yourself, who has a wife who wants to learn to fly, it's a much more favorable option because you can actually take the plane to your home airport and you and your wife can use it as much as you like. Its just like owning except someone else takes care of the maintenance and insurance. The lease terms are usually much more favorable than hourly rental rates or block time from F.B.O.s

Check within a few hundred miles of your local area and see what you come up with. You'll have to specifically ask around for these because they're usually not publicized. Most of them are very nice airplanes, too and some are even available for future purchase should you decide you like it so well you'll just keep it.

Hope this helps.

Shelby.

This reminds me about the fellow who "made a small fortune in aviation". To do it, he needed to start with a large fortune.

Airplanes can and sometimes do appreciate in value, but
if you are honest in your accounting methods, they
are very poor investments. The costs associated with
repairs and upgrades almost always massively outweigh
whatever seems like a profit.

I'm sorry that you misunderstood that part of the post. Dad wasn't wealthy when he bought his first airplane. It hurts to say that after 40+ years in the aviation business, he still wasn't wealthy when he recently passed away. He was always honest in his business, financial, and accounting methods. The larger airplane I mentioned was his moving up to a 150. That's right, UP to a 150.

My apologies for posting here.

Shelby.

None needed, Shelby! I'm sure we all agree. You are as welcome here as any of us!

I'm often misunderstood as I try to condense my thoughts into something that "reads" the way I "think"! It's hard to put the inflection in one's voice, the tear in the eye, or any other sensory perception on paper!

Carl

No apologies needed.

Initially when I started this thread I had blinders on. I was under the opinion that what I was considering (purchasing a plane) was the right thing to do and renting a plane for 150 to 160 hours for me and my wife would be a waste of good money. For someone as inexperienced as myself it seemed the logical thing to do, especially with both me and my wife going to utilize it. At the onset it seemed the most cost effective thing to do. And, even after having my eyes pried open to look at other options, I'm still not so sure it isn't if the right one comes along. I realize that it is not likely, but it can happen. With a little patience, a lot of luck and a lot of research, it can happen.
But, I have been given a reality check by many who have real world experiences and much smaller wallets after having bought what they thought was a good deal. They had their reasons and the best of intentions just as I do.
I appreciate their efforts to help me understand exactly what I would be getting myself into. The responsibilites of not only money but time as well. They have helped me consider that ownership right off the bat may not be in my best interest when there is so many other things in life that could be short changed if I have problems with the plane, my personal life, loose interest etc. I now understand and respect their views.
I also want to own my own plane. Maybe a good blend of the two will work for me. I'll try renting for a while but then if something comes along that seems like it is "the right one", then I'll take my leap of faith.
No Shelby, no apologies are needed for sharing your opinion with me. I appreciate hearing from someone who has an "alternate view".