Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes What have your operating/ownership costs been?

Well, after reading your replies to a few of my other posts I am starting to slow down and be a bit more rational about my purchase decision. I figure it will cost about $4k/year just to own this plane, and the flying I do will increase this number.

I was running the numbers yesterday and now I am not so sure I can comfortably afford a plane. The last time I did these calculations the interest rates were lower and the fuel prices were lower, insurance was lower, etc., you get the idea...

Anyways, I am sure many of you have owned for several years and have a good estimate of what the annual cost of ownership is. I know it depends on how many hours you fly, but maintenance, insurance, and loans are somewhat fixed cost.

What do you think this will cost me?

Thanks,
Tim

Tim,
I can only give you mine for my C150M.
I keep a running total and calculate (using Excel) tie down, fuel, failed parts (none to date), mechanic fees, and insurance. Any parts that I get replaced that add value to the plane I forget (like the new windshield).
The cost of the plane will be recouped, so I forget it.

As you would guess, the more I fly, the lower the cost per hour (I'm down to $111.31 per hour right now).

I did all of the things you're doing now, and didn't think I could afford a plane either. I had given up, and then saw this 150M at a much lower price than I had been working with. The catalyst for me was the unavailability and condition of planes to rent, and the price of this plane. I can fly when I want, I know the condition of the plane, and if things get really bad I can sell.
It's tight, but invariably we afford what we want to afford.

How do you put a price tag on a dream? If Justina and I were tottally practical and tried to justify all the costs of our airplane. Frankly, we would have no airplane. In all practicality, we cannot afford it. But, we make it work. I figure our costs about half of your figure, however. But not out of line.

Can we ever justify our airplane ownership? There are only things one can get done with the airplane. Like our recent trip to the Idaho Backcountry in a weekend. Or, visiting our relatives in Montana over a long weekend. Buzzing over to the coast for just a morning, or afternoon. An early morning breakfast over the hills. All only made possible by the airplane. You just cannot put a price tag on that.

Owning and flying my own airplane has been a dream of mine since childhood. We are making that dream work. I guess it just depends on how much you want to live your dream?

Other things you may want to consider is entry costs. You can aquire a perfectly airworthy Cessna 150 for around $15,000. Sometimes less. You may want to ask your elf, what is more important? That snazzy paint job? Snazzy interior? Snazzy avionics? Or, the capability of owning and flying your own airplane? Even if it has flaking and peeling paint? Maybe a tear here and there on the interior? Some cracked plastic? Basic radios? Maybe a dent, scratch or two on the exterior?

For example, Mr. Ed is definitely rough around the edges. But, it sure flys awfully pretty! Admittedly, it cost a wee bit more then $15,000. Not much more, but more. But it is a genuine 150 HP 150!
Just some thoughts...................

Bill, you've seen my plane?

Tim:

Without knowing where you live or will keep the airplane, it's difficult to provide an estimate. My sense, however, is that $4k annual fixed cost is high, unless you are adding in repayment of principal. Using principal for an airplane is a cost, but I think most exclude it when computing annual owning and operating costs.

When I was trying to buy a 150, I calculated that it would cost me $2,100 to 2,400 every year (I'm in Oklahoma), depending upon where I hanagared it, just to have the airplane and keep it in annual. That figure included hangar rent; insurance -- $1 million liability and in-motion hull coverage (I don't remember the deductable); and cost of annual with no major repairs. It did not include, depreciation, lost interest on the money invested in the airplane, or operating maintenance costs and engine reserve.

My fixed costs absorbed more than one-half of the discretionary money I had for flying and that's a lot. Local rental rates generally would have let me fly about 10 more hours a year for the same amount of money as I would have been paying as an owner. As an owner, I figured that for the money I had available, I could fly about 50 hours per year at an hourly cost of $91.00.

So, I had to decide what was my flying goal? Full ownership and all of the convenience, accessiblity, and financial responsiblities that go with it, or fractional ownership and reduced financial committment and obligations with a corresponding reduction in accessiblity and convenience?

I chose the later and a partnership arrangement which has worked extremely well for me. For about 1/3 of the capital outlay I would have spent for full ownership, I can fly about 70 hours per year for the same amount of money, in an airplane hangared only 10 minutes from my house, virtually whenever I want to with the knowledge that three others will be sharing the costs of hangar, insurance, and any maintenance issues that arise. In the seven months I have been a partner I have not encountered a single conflicting access issue.

Most people on this forum, with a couple of exceptions have chosen full ownership and the financial obligations that go with it. It's a choice that we must make at some point, and it sounds like you are at that point now.

Full ownership is a little easier choice if the potential owner is also an A&P or has good mechanical skills and a place to work on an airplane. Unfortunately for me, I have none of those talents or resources.

In any case, airplane ownership, full or fractional, is somewhat of a gamble, but it is usually so desirable, we are willing to take some big chances on the venture. You are the only one who knows your resources and what you want. You are the only one who can make the choice. Good luck and best wishes to you for success in whatever avenue you follow.

Don

Tim,

I'm not trying to give a smart-ass answer, but our cost numbers won't be of much use to you. The costs of insurance, hangar/tiedown, property tax, usage tax, loan interest, repairs, maintenance, annuals, etc vary so much from one owner to another. What you need to do (which I think you've done) is to find out what those costs are for YOU from sources like your banker, AOPA Insurance, your local tax dept, your local airport and FBO.

Once you have the numbers, you can decide whether ownership is AFFORDABLE. If you just flat can't make the payments, no amount of persuasion from us will amount to a hill of bean.

Now, if you're able to make the payments but not sure if ownership is JUSTIFIABLE, then we'll give you the spiel about the great advantages of ownership, blah blah blah

P.S. Just so you won't think I'm being stingy with information, my average cost is around $4000 year and I fly 70 to 90 hrs per year. I set up a checking account for my flying. Each month I deposit $400 into it. At the end of the year, I subtract the current balance from last year's balance and know exactly how much I spent in the previous 12 months. I also kept a detailed list of expenses to know where the money went.

I thought about taking each of those things and posting them separately and attaching a picture from my plane to go along with it. My little baby fits all of those descriptions, but, like Mr. Ed, she sure flies "awful pretty".

With use, the dollars per hour do go down, but you'll have to fly an awful lot to get the cost down to where it comes anywhere close to renting. I pay 1160/year for insurance, 2500/year for a hangar, and that's before I turn the key one time. Figuring 8 gallons per hour on a 150/150 Texas Taildragger, a 200 hour year would get me 1600 gallons at roughly 4 dollars per gallon (I know I can find it cheaper, but I sometimes burn more gallons per hour) yields 6400 dollars/year on gas. There's over ten grand total. I'll do 6 oil changes in there and at least one annual (I'm an A&P/IA) so my total parts plus oil can come close to another grand.

Dang you shouldn't have gotten me doing the math...

So, for about 900/month, I get to have my own airplane. That's including doing the maintenance myself, too. So, I could either fly 10 hours a month rental, or fly 16 hours in my plane. Not a bad swap.

On the other hand, If I was to only fly 5 hours a month in a rented 172 for 100 dollars/hour, the yearly cost would only be 6000, that includes insurance(not renters), fuel, maintenance, hangar/tie-down, and 90 percent of the ownership risk. So, to each his own. To those who are just trying to justify the acquisition, I hate to disappoint you. To those who are hopelessly ate up with it, I'm in good company.

Hi Tim,
If you check out the FAQ's from the front page of the website, Royson has an area devoted to "Cost of Ownership" this might help you out with your decision. Just a thought, but there for the reading. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Tim, there is no way to justify the ownership of an airplane. No way. You do it because you want to. Period!

That said, my airplane costs are as follows, not counting an overhauled engine that I just installed last week.

Insurance; $1100, hangar; $1200, annual; about $1100, fly 50 hours/yr. @ 6 gals/hr. @ $3.75/gal. 50 X 6 X 3.75 = $1125. Total; 1100+1200+1100+1125 = 4525. 4525/50 = $90.50/hr. marginal cost.

I have about 40k in the airplane including the overhauled engine. Interest on that amount @ 8% = $3200.

Total cost including cost of money; (4525 + 3200)/50 = $154.50/hr.

Years ago when I used an airplane for business I could justify ownership (just).

Does that make sense? No way! Why do I do it? Because I want to! Life is short enough without denying yourself the things that you want to do.

Geo.