Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Airplanes Only 1000' grass runway with 800 overrun: 100hp or 150hp, both STOL, much difference?

Looking to buy a 150/152 and I've come upon some nice 100hp planes and a couple 150hp conversions. For the same price I can get a more modern 100hp plane compared with buying the 150hp. I used to own a Citabria many years ago so I have the TD endorsement. Been flying helicopters exclusively for work for the last 10 years and I want to start flying airplanes again for fun and transportation to work.

For those with the experience flying various configurations, which should I be looking to buy for my future 1000' grass runway with 800' overrun? Is there much difference?

100hp or 150hp trigear with STOL?
100hP or 150hp taildragger with STOL?

Does a take off performance chart for the 150hp exist?

Finally is anyone selling one or does anyone know of any available planes that they could recommend?

Thanks !

Look, a NEW guy! Hello and welcome! Lots of Texans on here. You guys seem to be multiplying...

1,000' of grass seems like pretty slim margins to me. Could definitely see it being a problem on a hot, high DA day. Count me out on regularly attempting that with my 100 horsies. There are several folks on here who know the 150/150s pretty well and can chime in with their experience, but as far as i know, there arent any published performance charts for them.

Hello Carlos

Welcome to the forum. I think you will find a great bunch of people here that are always willing to help. We are fortunate to have this group and do not be afraid to ask for info and assistance.

I've been flying and building the 150/150's for many years and would be glad to pass on what I know. I own a 67G T.D. with an O-320E2D. Up here in Alaska we ask a lot from our little 150's and they can do a lot if they are correctly set up and properly flown.

We have never attempted to create a take off performance chart but we have spent countless hours testing and retesting these 150/150's. In my opinion I would rule out the 100 h.p. 150 as an option if you only have 1000'. I have flown some that will do it but the safety margin is to tight. As far as tail dragger verses nose wheel I think most of us agree the short field performance is often times worse with the tail wheel set up only because the angle of incidence is usually less. To compensate for this we re-arch the main gear and shorten the tail spring as much as possible. Then add the tall tires and you are back up to the steep angles you need for true short field work. In my opinion the true advantage to the tail wheel configuration is the ability to land and take off in rougher, softer terrain and the ability to swing a longer propeller.

My strip is 1100' with no overrun and we have been using the T.D. 150/150's on it since 1978 without incident and that includes hauling some very larger loads in and out. My plane does not have any STOL kit just VG's. I've flown many STOL wing 150's and I'm sorry to say I have yet to see much advantage. The only real performance changes I have seen are in weight loss and H.P. increase or prop pitch and length.

As far as finding one to purchase I do know of a few up here but that is a long way to shuttle a plane. If you find one you are interested in I'd be glad to talk you through the mods and share what I know.

P.M. me if you like.

The US Air Force Academy did a detailed study on the Cessna 150/150 back in 1996. It is very thorough and can answer a lot of performance questions. Somewhere... I have the original brochure from Aircraft Conversion Technologies that has "performance numbers" but it isn't as detailed as this report.

Here ya go: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a320789.pdf

Carlos,

Strongly recommend against the stock 150/152 on a runway of that length - even if there are no obstructions. There simply isn't any margin for takeoff on a warm day. For several years I had a 150 based on a 2,500-foot grass strip (trees on one end) and it was tight getting over the trees on warm days.

The 150-HP conversion of the airplanes should be just right for that runway. A STOL kit is not needed - IMHO, for a 150/152, it's just extra weight you don't need, VGs will do the same thing and weigh about a pound.

Warmest regards,
Rick

Thanks Barrett. That's what I need, info from people who know these planes so I can figure out what NOT to consider, like the 100hp out of my 1000' grass runway during a Texas summer, lol.

So now it's easier, my search has to be for a 150/150 if I'm wanting to fly out of here regularly.

Ed, thank you for that study and your PM info. I retired from the Air Force after 20+ years and love it when the Air Force still helps me out like with this report, lol. If you can find the brochure with the performance numbers that would be awesome too. I'll add cruise prop to the list. If you ever come down this way again you can land and visit here with my family. Might even have a longer runway by then.


Michael, thanks for your info as well. Right now I'm looking at two 150/150, one TD and other nosegear and both have STOL kits. When I first saw one of them I noticed no VGs and asked and my mechanic told me it had STOL but no VGs. Since I had my doubts about VG versus STOL I'm going to do a little more research on that. Your experience in that regard adds to what I thought about that subject and what others via PM have told me.

An eye opener is where you mention the nose wheel being better than an unmodified TD for short takeoffs. I'm sure I might be oversimplifying it but I also like the idea of the TD for softer runways (my field after big rains). We've all seen the YouTube videos and for you it's a normal daily operating flight, so if you could talk more about the TD vs nose gear it would help immensely.

I have a field so I was thinking about adding dirt and building up a 40' wide strip a few inches (for rain to roll off of) x 10000' to use as the runway. The field is completely flat and I drive a golf cart over it regularly so it's not as rough as what I'm sure you land on so I'm thinking it might not be so bad right now if I use a TD instead of a nosewheel 150 and save on the additional dirt buildup making the entire field my runway, not just 40' of it.

These are the things I'm having to research before I buy the plane even though I'm going to leave it at the local airport hangar until I'm very comfortable with short field use as they also have a grass runway with the asphalt one.

As soon as I narrow down the aircraft search I'll definitely PM you about it. You guys have already given me more info to think about regarding the runway and aircraft so thanks.

Thanks Rick. I was writing my reply while you wrote yours. It seems all the 150/150s I've seen for sale have the STOL kit already.

My hangar neighbor at Ames, Iowa has a 150/150 Aerobat. It is the most gorgeous 150 I have ever seen (nosewheel with pants). Fantastic paint job and very well equipped (wingtip strobes, HID taxi and landing lights, etc.). I believe it is a J or K model. He has told me several times he is thinking of selling it to buy a Cirrus. He said his 150hp STC is the only one that retains the aerobatic capability (don't know if that is correct). If you have any interest PM me and I will pass your info on.

The K model is the only one. Some say it was a paperwork oversite and though legal for aerobatics the pilot would do so at his own risk as all other models are excluded.

Fred - I'm still deciding between a nosewheel or a TD for my grass operation but I just sent you a PM. Thanks.

Bruce thanks for the info. FYI - I did enough spins in my old Citabria so now I just want straight and level flying, lol.