Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Prebuy Results

Well, for those who are following my aircraft purchase sage (son to be released as an epic motion picture;) ) here is that latest update.

I found a 150 that looked to be in good shape. I had it taken in for the pre-buy, and I got the results today. It's a 1967 with 2800 on the tach. Well, it turn out that the tach may have been replaced and it may have 5100 hours on it. The mechanic thinks it happened in 1974, well before the current owners.

There are the usual assortment of well used parts that may need replacement. The landing gear has pulled some rivets and they need to be replaced. The owner has been running autogas, but the STC was only done on the hull. He thinks it was originally done on the first engine, but not on the second. And it has a full load of autogas in it now. (I plan on using 100LL.)

With parts and labor, he estimates that there will be about $4600 worth of work to be done on the plane. But with that work, he thinks it will be a good plane that I can get a lot of years out of.

So far, I haven't talked to the owners. I am inclined to go with the plane, but I want to talk to the owner about what has been found. The one owner has done a lot of his own maintenance, but I want the work to be done by the people who did the prebuy. Any thoughts?

Mr. Patrick Norris:

Pat, I'm antithetical guy, and as such when the math does not add up, nither do a lot of other things!

Just my thoughts...

Herb Rose, N5793E; KZER

Only 5100 hours...
My 67 G model has over 6200 (3128 on the current tach, the third).

For what it's worth, Here are few of my thoughts:

1) Where's the aircraft? If its not at home or this is being done at a distance by an unknown mechanic? If its at a distance, I'd try and bring it home if its airworthy. If it's at home and you trust the mechanic...

2) The questionable auto gas STC is no big deal since at worst all you have to do to be legal is drain the tanks and refill with 100LL (I'd probably just fly it and refuel with 100LL as I go.)

3) The G through K models are my favorites, you get to sit in a reasonable position and they have the bowed out doors. The flat gear are a little stiffer and narrower than the tubular gear introduced in the Ls but if you can grease a landing with the flat gear you know you're doing well.


Good Luck!

The STC for auto fuel goes with the airframe I believe, so I am not sure what the mechanic is talking about other than it is missing the metal label that attaches to one of the pushrods. Get a new label from whomever issued the STC and you should be good to go (logbooks should reflect if the STC was added to the plane, and FAA can supply a copy of the corresponding 337).

Mogas approval is in two parts - engine & airframe. See the EAA site:

http://www.eaa.org/education/fuel/twostcs.html

Jeff
That question about the hours is a biggie. It would mean most of the airplane has twice the wear the present owner may beleive of it. If he priced it accordingly you should be able to negotiate a healthy chunk off to offset the things you need to do. N150DM is just ready to turn 6000 hours and she's still a tight little ship. Hours mean little, maintenance means everything. BTW...I have several hundred hours of autogas on my engine and believe me, no residual ill effects. Best of luck with your search <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

That agrees with what my A&P said.

[color:"blue"] "With parts and labor, he estimates that there will be about $4600 worth of work to be done on the plane. But with that work, he thinks it will be a good plane that I can get a lot of years out of." [/color]

Is this what's holding you back? The $4,600 estimate for repairs? You must consider this as an addition to the total asking price! If you can't negotiate a purchase price that brings your total cost to near market value (including the cost of repairs), maybe you should walk away (again?) and keep looking.

The only red flag I see (other than the possible too high total price) is the "pulled" rivets for the landing gear mounts. If indeed these have pulled through the skin, skin replacement (or at least a good patch) is likely needed, and may increase the cost of repair. If the rivets are merely "working" (black deposits around the heads), they may only need replacing with oversized rivets. If the high shear rivets that mount the gearbox to the bulkheads inside are also working, the repair will be more difficult and expensive. There is also the small possibility of a cracked gearbox needing replacement, or mounting bulkheads requiring repair/replacement. While I don't consider the rivet issue necessarily disqualifying, it certainly needs detailed inspection before a decision is made to purchase.

EDIT: Incidentally, this is the third 150 I have heard of in as many months with working rivets at the landing gear mounts! I think this should be an area of concern for every owner/operator of 150's/152's (and probably other single engine Cessna's with similar mountings, as well) with a few thousand hours or a history of possible hard landings. Working rivets are easy to spot on the outside, but you have to get down and look up underneath the gearbox attachment to see them. Some may be hidden by landing gear to fuselage fairings. This is definately an area needing inspection on any pre-buy/annual inspection. Early detection (pre-flight inspection?) would definately help lower repair costs!

Carl,

Are you saying that I should talk about talking to the owner and seeing if I can get a price reduction? Or should I ask him to do the work? (I am opposed to this on the grounds that he has used a few non-aviation parts in the past.)

Thanks

Price reduction!

Lets say an airplane passes inspection with no problems and is worth $20,000 based on market trends. If the seller's asking price is more than that, it doesn't matter ... it's still only worth $20,000.

If that same plane doesn't pass inspection, is it still worth $20,000? No! It's worth $20,000 minus the actual cost of all repairs. If the repairs are going to cost $5,000, then the plane is only worth $15,000 as is. In this case, it would be silly to offer more than $15,000, regardless of asking price or the sellers wishes, especially if you want to have someone other than the seller (or his mechanic) do the repairs.

Everything is negotiable. You don't have to do anything you don't want to, or do it the way the seller wants. If you can't reach an agreement you can live with, all you can do is walk!

Here's an option maybe you both can live with. If the owner thinks he can save money by doing the repairs himself, or having his mechanic do them. Fine! (Yep! Let him do it!) But, (if he won't agree otherwise) only a small good faith deposit you're willing to loose if you decide against the purchase changes hands before final sale, and the sale is contingent upon everything passing you and your mechanics final inspection! Legal solution for both of you!