Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Negotiating defects after Pre-purchase inspection

If I remember correctly, when a U.S. plane is registered in Canada it receives a brand new set of logbooks and, in effect, the original logs are 'thrown away'.

The unscrupulous dealers can use this to their advantage, effectively hiding previous damage history and presenting an airplane with a legally 'complete' set of logbooks.

The logbooks are not just nice to have, they are essential if you want to know what has and has not been done to the airplane. The first thing that pops into my mind is AD compliance. Make sure that the AD compliance is not ?pencil whipped?, that is some statement like ?AD 1234 complied with? and that?s all. There should be a full description of the means of compliance. If each and every AD has not been logged as complied the airplane is not AIRWORTHY. Not Airworthy means that you can?t legally fly it. You may spend a bunch on just this one issue because of the lack of logbooks.

Some day you are going to want to sell the plane and you will be faced with the issue of abbreviated logbooks.

NEVER fall in love with another man?s airplane (or wife). Wait until she is yours to fall in love. There are too many good 150/152 out there to even consider this airplane seriously. The most important part of buying an airplane is patience, order yourself a couple of barrels and apply it liberally.

My advice is not to invest any more time, money or emotion in the poor old thing. Just keep looking and you will find one that is even better.

Just to clarify the log issue. She has logs for the past 2 years which detail the rebuild, paint and recent work. It's the logs for everything before 2002 that are missing, (yes all the logs, airframe, engine, prop, ADs and journey log) all gone. The AME is looking at the current logs today and I have expressed my concerns and he understands.

He is going to look at the plane with a forensic level of detail to figure out if it has been damaged and if so were the repairs done properly. He will also looks at the new AD logbook and confirm that the ADs were not just pencil whipped off.

There are many planes out there without complete logs and many planes with complete logs that have had damge but don't have damage history recorded. Again, I'm a strong believer in the value of a full set of logs but at the same time I'm not convinced that a missing set of logs warrents a walk away, they do of course warrent a very detailed inspection and do warrent a very large deprecation in value.

Lets wait and see what my AME has to say.

At today's exchange rate that comes out to $23,494 U.S. Dollars. With all the items, sounds high to me. If you really want it that bad, I would have the seller pay for the repairs. But, if you decide to back out of this one, I was offered a 150 late last year when I was looking for 1st airplane. Do not remember the year or any other stats. It was not really pretty was was supposed to be a nice airplane, also IFR. The price was around $20,000 U.S. I think it is still available. The individual has not seriously put it up for sale yet. Oh, I did not buy that one because I found a really great deal elsewhere.

Just remember that someday you will be selling a plane without complete logs and it WILL cause you a problem! I think that you can see from the response that you have seen here that I am not making this up.

I knew that I could count on Wayne to breakout his shotgun.

You are a buyer today. Someday you'll be a seller.

There are many guys that won't touch an airplane that
has any damage history-- regardless of how long ago
and regardless of the repair quality.

Some guys won't touch an airplane with an engine that's
anywhere near TBO.

But I'll tell you what-- all of that pales next to "no logs". This plane may turn out AOK, but the "no logs" is a stink that you won't be able to get rid of.

Even if you can negotiate the price down to next to nothing, that's all you can expect when it's time to sell.

The paperwork matters. A lot of it is stupid, I admit.
But it matters.

I walked away from an excelent older model 150 last year that I wanted bad and would have bought if it had complet log books. It did not, so I walked and three weeks later bought my 1972 L model for the same money. newer acft, better condition, complete log books,have put on 95 hours and am satisfied with both my decisions. like every one has told you, keep looking, there are a lot of good C150's out there.

TOM MEREDITH
1972 C150 N5305Q

Well I believe the deal is all but dead.

There are a number of issues that came to light. Here are the Major Highlights

1) This engine has not received a major overhaul as advertised! It has had a bottom overhaul only.

2) The propeller was required to be overhauled when the logs were reconstructed. It was not. My AME notes that the propeller would not pass an overhaul and thus this step was probably skirted in order to avoid that expense.

3) This aircraft did not have a CofA! Where is this paper work?

4) $7800CND = $5780.00 required in repairs.


AME estimates the cost to fix all items that he found to be $7800.00 for parts and labour; $4000.00 for odds and ends not counting the ADF and $3800 for a new prop. All Canadian dollars.

No logs for this aircraft is a serious issue that effects the value of aircraft but one I was willing to live with. However, advertising an airplane as having a major overhaul when in fact it was a minor overhaul of the bottom end only is a drastic mis-representation.

I countered with this offer after the AME inspection. I will eat the depreciation in value due to the lack of Major Overhaul, Logs, and other related paper work like the CofA. As well I wouldn?t worry about fixing the ADF. If the owner is willing to eat the cost of all other outstanding issues.

In other words I will buy the plane as is where is for $22200.00CND = $16500.00USD.

No I wouldn?t consider having the owner?s AME do the repairs. He has lost my confidence as a respectable AME.

Also, we were unable to deliver the plane back to the owner due to the lack of both Legal airworthiness and practical airworthiness. I.e. no one is willing to fly this aircraft without the legal paper work and or if it has to be hand propped to get it started.

Now I don?t think the owner is going to want to come down in price on his aircraft. I think he has an unreal expectation of its value. So looks like this one is a walk.

I know you all told me so but really this was a great learning experience therefore I?m in no way bitter about the lost money for inspections ect.

Excellent. I know it's hard to believe, but the journey is actually more important than the destination. You've got exactly the right attitude. Carry on.

That sound that you just heard was a great collective sigh of relief from your collective virtual friends. You have had a good experience, even though it may not seem like it right now. You spend hundreds of dollars on the inspection and saved thousands. And to boot you learned a great deal, and look at the fun that you had. You obviously have your head on straight.

Just keep looking. There are a bunch of good airplanes out there that are fairly priced by good and honest people. "Patience Grasshopper" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> We are a long way from the last good 150/152.