Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Considering a 150/150

Hi everyone. I joined yesterday and have already learned more about the 150/150 than I could've imagined, but here's my question:

I am looking at a 150/150 that I may buy. It does not have the gross weight increase. Does anyone know where I can get the paperwork STC for the increase to 1760? What's the phone number? How much is it? Are there any stilpulations? Has anyone done this? I know it's just a legality but I am not willing to fly around over GW for insurance purposes.

While your plan sounds logical, I think you'll find it unworkable.

Let's see what the others think.

To my knowledge, the only re-engine STC that provided a legal gross weight increase (normal category operation only) was Aircraft Conversion Technologies. This old post from the Taildragger Club website says ACT has no website (I can't find one) and gives an individual as contact information: ACT Information [taildraggerclub.org]

Another site has this to say: "Aircraft Conversion Technologies of Lincoln, California owns the Texas Taildragger STC."

The FAA site gives this info: "Aircraft Conversion Technologies, Inc, P.O. Box 119 6245 Aerodrome Way Georgetown CA 95634 United States"

In another thread, Jeff Davis has this to say:



I've no idea where he got that information. Unless your 150/150 has the ACT conversion, I don't see how their paperwork could legally apply to your aircraft, or any other companies STC. If you already have the ACT STC, I would think you already have the gross weight increase.

Carl

This is from a previous post from Royson regarding the STC's that were previously owned by ACT including the HP upgrades and GW increase

Before ACT sold to Del-Air, I talked to them (after a bajillion unreturned phone calls) and they (at that time) would graciously sell me the STC for the GW increase for a paltry sum of $1200. They wanted my blueprints or copy thereof, and then would make the STC fit, so...can't speak to the current owners, but at that time, they were willing to grant the STC to an Avcon conversion.

Call them and ask. However, if you have the ACT conversion, they will charge you the same amount or perhaps a little less and issue the STC.

There are a whole bunch of other "foilables" you should be aware of with the 150 or 180 hp conversions, so before you decide to purchase, get all the information, then be ready to be grilled to well done status. Main thing is the paperwork and long range tanks (with paperwork) installed. you will want a full copy of the blue prints, all 337's and appropriate log book entries. DO NOT proceed without this stuff unless the price is discounted or get your credit card (or home equity loan) out...cause it will cost you.

"former 150/150 owner...who loves the airplane"

FYI...a little follow up....thanks for the advice, anyway, I called Del Air, and it's pretty tough to get a straight answer out of the guy, but he will "work with me". Of course it depends on who did the conversion, which I don't know yet, if we have the blueprints, etc. He mentioned 3 key components: the spiiner, exhaust system, and carb induction. Also the nose cowl on the Avcon is different than the Del air/ATC. He suggested I get friendly with an IA, why I'm not sure, and frankly I was a bit confused at this point. I think I will try to get the plane at a good price, then worry about the STC. That may be going about it the wrong way. Any advice/other considerations to take with me when I go look at it would be appreciated.

Man...oh man, there is a lot here. Other than things that apply directly to the Cessna 150 (ie, the elevator bracket SB, flap tracks/rollers, seat tracks, etc) there really are not a lot of problems on the O-320 conversion.

1) Engine: Normally an O-320 E2D that powered most of the 68 to mid 70's 172's. Very bullet proof but not without AD's. Oil pump gear AD may apply, checking the end of the Crank for rust and greasing AD may apply. You will want to check both the main screen (unless there is a filter, then cut the filter) and the finger screen at the bottom of the engine (oil inlet). Look at what prop is on the bird as there is a whole book that can be written about props and their variations, but it seems Wayne W. has the perfect combo prop pitch.

2) Have the exhaust system checked. There is only one way to fix the exhaust, and that is to find a shop that will build an entirely new on using a couple of pieces from your old one. Baffles, welds, etc.

3) Where is the battery...some are in the nose with lead weight in the tail, others (like mine) relocate the battery to the tail.

4) Long Range tanks....if it doesn't have LR tanks, move on to the next one...you WILL regret this decision if not. They are not a cheap install and you are not going very far at 8.5-9 GPH without them.

5) Paperwork/Paperwork/Paperwork. Again as I said before. Don't get "buyitis" and skip the paperwork. Something as simple as replacing the electric boost pump (yes...electric boost pump...what on a Cessna?) may come to a grinding halt since you need the drawings to prove to some AP's that the "model number" of the new "automotive Facet pumps" are acceptable since they don't build Aviation certified ones. Don't ask how I know this.

6) Quality of the cowling modifications: Biggy here potentially. The STC was actually modified at some point on the Avcon when the cowling began rubbing holes in the number 1 valve cover. A "WAD" of duct tape was the modification (oh for goodness sakes) to prevent the chafing. Again...don't ask how I know this one. A bit of decent metal work fixes this problem.

Finally, be aware that the airplane has a forward CG compared to it's O200 parent. So...keeping mindful of the nosewheel is very important, but not difficult. It made the transition to my Cardinal a piece of Cake. But, the unwary can slam the nose down if not minding their P's and Q's on landings.

If there is STOL or ACT "Long range" tanks installed, again, make sure the documents and weight and balance in order or walk, as you may buy a technically unairworthy bird.

Oh...and when you go to have a checkout or flight review,,, I have run into two instructors (one 150/150 owner friends instructor and the instructor for the guy I sold mine too) who won't fly it over GW. Simple answer here...it is a 150 after all, fuel it down for the check ride, then control your fuel consumption with the little black knob your hand attaches to during take-off and landing.

My O-320 when flying to Clinton with two stock 150's burned a paltry 5.5 GPH hauling a "tad" more cargo than the stock birds. I actually skipped refueling at some stops. It is a great bird to fly around with windows open at 2000 to 2100 RPM (unless of course yours has the prop engine combo that restricts "prolonged operation" between the 1800 and 2200 RPM mark-if my memory is correct).

In addition to some of the other excellent information that has been posted here are my brief thoughts on purchasing a 150/150.

PAPER WORK: I bought a 150/150 without the paper work and it cost me around $1200 to replace the STC and the blue prints ($500 for the STC and $700 for the prints). These items are an absolute necessity for maintaining the airplane. If the seller can?t provide all of the paper work discount the purchase price!

GROSS WEIGHT INCREASE: I have had the conversation with the Del-Air folks vis-?-vis obtaining the 10% GW increase. The conclusion of the conversation was that the way that this could be accomplished with my Avcon conversion was to submit the aircraft and drawings to Del-Air to assure that my conversion conforms to their STC. Assuming that the Avcon installed conversion is compliant with the Del-Air (ACT) STC a paper work transaction would remove the Avcon conversion and install the Del-Air conversion (paper work only). We really couldn?t get into cost without him being able to look at my plane and my paper work.

EXAUST SYSTEM REPAIRS: There is no repair authorization for the Avcon muffler/exhaust pipe assembly. The only way to repair it is to replace it with one from Bush ($785 at last pricing) or have one built and acquire a 337 approval (not easy). I don?t know what the situation is with the Del-Air conversion.

OVERGROSS AND INSURANCE: This is an easy one to solve. Buy an insurance policy that won?t penalize you for being stupid, that is what I did. If you aren?t willing to fly over gross you most likely should forget about a 150/150. Even the 10% increase is not really enough. There is a risk in flying over gross but in my considered opinion it is small and with a little common sense very manageable.

LONG RANG TANKS: If the plane that you are looking at doesn?t have long rang or auxiliary tanks be prepared to spend in the range of $3k to $5k. You won?t be happy with less than around 32 gallons of fuel capacity. A 150/150 is a traveling machine and you will be disappointed with the limitations imposed by having only an hour and a half or so of range (at normal cruise power). Sure you can pull back on the black knob and burn 5 to 6 GPH ? but you won?t.

THE GOOD STUFF: I have owned my 150/150 for about 2 ? years and I have had more fun with it than any airplane I have ever owned. It is economical to own and operate. The ownership cost (insurance, annual inspection, hanger, etc.)are almost exactly the same as that of a stork 150. The cost per hour is a bit higher because I burn 8.4 GPH rather than 6 GPH but the cost per mile is just about the same as a stock 150. The cost to overhaul an 0-320 is about the same as an 0-200. So far I haven?t made a bad landing in my SportHawk and believe me I know how to make bad landings. I feel that the additional 50 HP gives me a great safety margin; over loaded by 20% she will still climb in excess of 1000 FPM (or so I have been told). Well loaded and on a warm day she will get air-born in 300 feet. At a density altitude of 9000 + feet she will get off in a reasonable ground run and climb at 500 to 700 FPM. All in all it is a great airplane and a whale of a lot of fun. It is well worth the few slight inconveniences of operating an airplane that is not totally stock.

OK, I saw the plane last weekend, like it, going to make an offer today. Had another conversation with Del Air and it sounds like we can make it work. For $1800 or so.

Jamie, if you haven't already made the offer, why not tell the seller the deal is contingent on his obtaining the Del-Air STC? Even if the seller reduces the price to cover the cost of the STC, you will have assumed the risk of not getting it approved. If that fails, and you are willing to assume the risk, you can make a second offer reducing the price to cover the cost. Hope I'm not too late!

Carl