Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Issues on a 150 I might purchase

I am considering an older 150, straight tail and fastback configuration. Overall, it looks good with its eight year old paint and it is 200 since major overhaul at an FBO. TT is just over 3500 hours Going over it, I discovered some issues:

1. The damage history is the biggest concern. 20 years ago, the airplane had a hard landing and ran into a fence. It was repaired with rebuilt engine (later replaced), reconditioned prop and repair to wing damage. Even though the hard landing and run in with the fence happened 20 years ago, it is still a factor. The repair should have been proper (which it seems like by the logs) and the paperwork for the repairs are in order. In checking with coworkers who are both A & P's, one being an IA and both FAA manufacturing inspectors, I learned that if the repairs were more than parts replacements and that modification work had to be done, there should be a 337 form signed off. I did not see any 337 for this work, just log book entries. Owner says that this happened 20 years ago and cannot do anything about the paperwork.

2. There are 10-20 dime sized depressions on the top of the wing and fuselage, which could be caused by hail while the airplane was sitting outside. They are not deep and don't appear to affect airworthiness. The unfortunate thing is that they may not be repairable unless they are filled at the time of a repaint. This would detract a bit from the value of the airplane.

3. With the back plastic wall removed, I looked into the rear of the fuselage and found a large stain two bulkheads back on the fuselage floor. Cannot tell if it is water or oil.

Any suggestions to deal with the damage history paperwork, hail damage and stain? Should I consider this airplane of walk away? I have not yet flown this airplane.

Steve

Regarding the previous repairs....
The plane has been flying for 20 years.
That should tell you something.

It sounds to me like you've already decided to bail.

Why are you looking for reasons to change your mind?

Every year, roughly 800 150-152s change hands.
There are plenty of others to choose from.

You really want to feel great when it comes time to turn over your dough.

If this repair concerns you, eject and don't look back.

Steve,
You didn't mention anything about the asking price.
If the price is ok and reflects the true condition of the plane I would think it would be ok.
It has been fine for 20 years.
But as Steve said in his response YOU must feel good about it, if not than walk. Plenty of others out there.

Ron

You can order a copy of the aircraft's records from the FAA. Takes about a week or two, costs only $5. You'll get a CD with EVERY single piece of paper about that airplane, including Form 337s.

1) Click here: Do-It-Yourself DOT [diy.dot.gov]

2) Click on "Federal Aviation Administration"

3) Click on "Aircraft Payments"

4) Click on "Request for Copies of Aircraft Records."

Fill in the form, then wait by the mailbox.

I am not sure if you understood me about the repair history 20 years back. From a legal point of view, unless the repairs involved straight replacement of parts and required modifications to the wing, there has to be an FAA Form 337 in the paperwork written to cover it. If the FAA found no 337 for such a repair during a ramp check, or the inspector doing the annual is strict and by the book, the airplane could be grounded until I could find a repair shop willing to issue the 337 (and take responsibility for the repair). That is what concerns me. Both of my friends who are A&P's work for the FAA as manufacturing inspectors and they have advised me of this. I am looking for a way to cure this situation.

As for the slight hail damage, I am looking for a means to repair this. I am hearing that such damage is permanent - any ideas?

Finally, this is the very first airplane I have ever purchased (price is around $20,000). I want to be careful and buy a good, relatively trouble free machine that won't become a money pit or an FAA grounded ramp queen.

$20,000 seems kinda salty. I just sold my beloved 73 150 for $19.5 and it was sharp, good airframe and eng hrs and equiped with a KX 155.
From what you described the plane sounds good, the price would make me run. What does it have for radios? I may be alone about this but I think a good stack of avionics is very important in the price of a plane.

I hope this doesn't sound too critical....

You are emotionally invested in this airplane. Big mistake.

First off-- you can't be in a hurry.

Do what Kirk suggested and get the FAA CD-ROM. It's the best 5 bucks you'll ever spend.

If the repair in question has no 337, and your A&P friends won't help you make it right-- walk away.

That all said, I can't imagine ANY ramp check that would detect this situation.

Finally, there are very few flying 40 year old airplanes that don't have at least one skeleton in their hangar. I've owned two airplanes that had "checkered" pasts. It hasn't bothered my one bit.

But this isn't about me. It's about you.

You are involved in a process where "buying" is one choice,
but "walking" has to be the other.

You need to feel great when you hand over the check.
If you are queasy, eject.

As Kirk has said and Steve backed up, spend the $5.00 and get the CD.
Maybe a 337 was done and got lost from the logs.

If the repair was done in compliance with Cessna approved methodes do you still need a 337 or is a log entry OK ?

Ron

To all,

First, thanks for your responses, they are helpful.

I actually work for the FAA myself as an Aerospace Engineer in Aircraft Certification (where Type Certificates, Supplemental Type Certificates, AD's are processed - but not repairs and 337 which FSDO's do). I did get the FAA paperwork two weeks ago on this airplane. There is no 337 form on file for the wing repairs (there were modifications invloved such as a double row of rivets along the rib instead of single row, etc.) There is also no 337 for the STC'd droop wingtips and for the flap gap seals. All this is by log book entry only. As a condition of sale, I would stipulate that the owner hire an A&P (hies brother is one) to write the 337's (of course that A&P assumes responsibility). Otherwise, no sale.

What are your thoughts? Am I being reasonable, or too paranoid?

Steve

An A&P can write a 337, but it requires an IA to approve it, and the FSDO to sign off on it. It's not something Joe Bob A&P will fill out and tuck in the records making it legal.