Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes How much is this plane worth?

Thanks for the comments, guys.

I realize that $30k is probably a little high, that was why I asked the question. We'll see if he is willing to drop his price.

I did check the Vref on the AOPA website, but I think that always comes out on the high side. That's why I was asking for some real-world experience on the actual price of these things.

Your thinking is correct.

In my opinion, I don't see their numbers matching up very well with market values.


Jim

Before buying my first plane (a 150K), I considered several types. I used every market value research tool I could find, and none of them reflected what I was finding on the market. They were all high, and AOPA was among the highest.

Why is it they all seem high when you're buying but too low when you're selling?

Try selling one at the Vref price to get your answer!

So where are all these planes that are supposed to be priced right hiding??? It seems everyone I've looked at everyone says is too high.. This is a journey, isnt it!!!!

Yes, it is a quest for that special airplane! It is a slow journey, but the rewards are great!

You have to be of the mindset that it exists, and you're going to find it. If you don't find it right away, that just means you haven't looked in the right places. You have to be persistant. If you only read the ad's once or twice a week, the bargains will be gone before you can act on them. Get a feel for where to look. ASO.com and similar sites cater to the higher end sellers. Barnstormers and other "free" sites don't, and you sometimes have to sift through the chaff to find the wheat! Aerotrader is a good compromise.

There are no less than eight Cessna 150's on Aerotrader and a few dozen on Barnstormers RIGHT NOW for under $20,000! Some maybe are good deals, and some aren't! There are a hundred places to look for planes online! Google "Cessna 150 for sale" or similar.

You will likely not find a $30,000 airplane selling for under $20,000. But then, there are very few stock Cessna 150's that are really worth $30,000 on the open market. That's where many buyers get into trouble. They go in expecting to pay a high end price for what they want (a "New" airplane at a used price) and wind up settling for less airplane at that same higher price (a "used" airplane at a used price). These aren't going to be perfect airplanes. No 22-48 year old airplane is going to be perfect if it's flown regularly. If paint and interior are important to you, you're gonna pay higher prices. Same with IFR capability (often grossly overpriced for what you actually get). The real bargains are good solid airplanes that look like crap (nead paint and interior work) but will fly you anywhere troublefree. A pretty hangar queen is still a hangar queen. Your personal requirements should set the price range!
Change your requirements only when the price range is too high!

The real effort comes into play once you've located a list of candidates in a comfortable price range. Then you have to separate the wheat from the chaff, and often you'll need help in that. That's where the experience on the forum comes in. You've already picked out a plane you're interested in before you come to the forum. You've already picked out the good points, and will likely list those in your post. No point to us telling you what you already know (the good points). That leaves us with the responsibility of making sure you (a friend and member of the club) recognize any bad points. We are the devil's advocates in the buying process. When we think you've found a good deal, we'll tell you so. Just because we pick out the flaws in an airplane you like doesn't mean it's not a good deal for you personally, just that the evidence you present (and that we might find elsewhere) shows that it might not be.

I just saw a 1972 C-150 Aerobat on eBay, 3600TT, good engine times, nice plane for $18K starting bid, but when I got home this morning, the auction was pulled....maybe someone emailed him and said it was worth at least $25K to start.
The most valuable 150's are the Aerobats, ones with long range tanks, and those with 150HP conversions, as well as low time cream-puffs that were privately flown and are mint! ( i.e. the Williams 400hr Aerobat time-capsule although the radios were museum pieces)
Taildragger conversions can be a plus or minus depending on the preference of the buyer, and there are different types of conversions out there. I think the spring gear ones look the best (especially the straight tail fastbacks), and the tube gear ones are too low to the ground. No offense to anyone- I hate asparagus, too!
Planes with full IFR goodies seem to command high prices as well, but "most" IFR training is done in 172's, and in my opinion a ton of nav-coms just weighs the plane down, and 22.5 usable doesn't make a superior instrument platform. 90 knots should be your approach speed, not your cruise! Also, the avionics package in the plane may not be to your liking, or fit your needs. (dated) A KNS-80 was the hot item in the 90's, but now it's GPS, so yes an IFR 150 would be worth $40K+, if the package was new King radios and a Garmin 430 or better.
I just sunk about $13K in a new engine FWF plus accessories (all new) and a year later a complete strip and Jetglo paint job for $11.6K (original trim design- extra cost for Aerobat stripes/checkerboard)and that doesn't include most of the labor as I have an A&P, so even if you include the $6750 I paid for the plane in 1988 (boy, was that a deal!)I have approx. $31K and change into it. (Obviously, that doesn't include the 19 years of other expenses, operating costs and so on) Granted, you cannot find a 150 under $7K any more unless it's a wreck or a corrosion queen, so if you factor the cost of a run-out 150 with crap paint selling for around $15-16K, then add the current prices for a complete paint and engine overhaul (estimate $25K for both)- that's where you see the $30-40K asking prices. So when you see high airframe time( 7000-8000hrs or more) 150 with decent paint and maybe it's at 1600SMOH, you need to be realistic about what the current owner is asking. What you don't need to do is reimburse him for everything he spent on the plane, all the radios he added, and all his flying lessons as well!
Carl, and others are correct, at any given time there's a boat load of 150s for sale on all the sites and publications. Sometimes the best deals are planes that AREN'T for sale, planes at your local field, or one owned by an acquaintance, who when approached about selling their plane, suddenly see the benefit of passing ownership to you.
The best thing to do is research the year/model you like, the radios you need, and the remaining engine times you can live with before you have to start overhauling things, as well as the condition of the interior furnishings.A trashed interior, torn seats, broken faded plastic and even a crazed windshield can add thousands to the cost to refurbish. Make a list and stick to it!
This was brought up earlier on the forum, buying a 150 with mid time engine, say 1200 hrs or so, then you fly it for 400 hrs and figure on selling it, you won't get anywhere near what you paid for it because the next buyer knows it only has a couple hundred to go till TBO. Also, at mid-time you may get a sudden surprise where you have to "top" the engine to make it to TBO, or if it's close to that time, you might end up doing an unexpected early overhaul.
If you are looking for a 152, they seem to command a little higher price than 150s, and if the Chinese are starting to buy them for export, the price will increase even more. Many 152's have airframe times over 7000 hrs as the flight schools continued to use them long after the 150s went to private ownership.The 152's were made in '78, '79, '80 and 81 until they trickled to a halt a few years later, but most are 78-80,where the 150s were made from 1959 'till 1977, so there's more options and models to choose from.
Good luck with your search, and do post info here about any plane you are considering, there's a wealth of info and experience here.
-Brian

Excellent point, Brian, and I think another place where a lot of buyers go wrong! You simply can't expect to buy any plane at any fair price, fly it for a few hundred hours, and get your "investment" back out of it! I see it often on the forum: "I'd like to buy, but I'm afraid I can't get my money back when I sell!"

Getting our money back or "investing" is NOT why we buy airplanes! Flying is a hobby for most of us, not a business. Hobbie's cost money! You will very likely suffer a loss when you sell. We buy airplanes because if you're going to fly, you're going to pay somebody for the use of a plane. Don't think the owner hasn't figured in every cent of his overhead costs, including his original purchase, all modifications, maintenance, hangar rent, tiedown fees, insurance, profit margin, overhual costs, DEPRECIATION... everything! If you're going to pay somebody, pay yourself! Sure, it still cost's you something to fly, but not nearly what it cost to rent, if you did your homework before you bought, and realize that no upgrade will return a profit later! You save only the difference in your actual costs and rental costs. You never make a dime unless you find a lollipop (a really big sucker!)

You buy because of the savings, not because of any perceived "investment" that might yield a financial return! The only returns are in your pride of ownership and the enjoyment of flight.

Well put Carl!