Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Help me estimate the value of this 152

Sorry John,

Open the other thread and find a picture of the C152. On the Left will be ' Bryans ' name, above his profile and picture. Click his name and select 'Send a PM'. Fill out the message you want to send and click Submit.

This will send him a private message.
He will reply...

Good Luck!
-corey

As far as leaseback goes, many schools do not like to take on "non-stock" aircraft, such as one with a Sensenich prop. It makes the performance numbers in the book all wrong, and more difficult for the instructor and student to teach/learn properly.

As far as the wood overlays go, I'm with Jeff, remind me to never think about doing that........ It would be a lot of work to "unconvert" (if that is a word) the wood panel back to plastic, but I do think the wood would have to go in the trash if it were mine.

The Sensenich prop is available from either AeroModsNW or Sensenich, under different STC's. As you noted, it may have been installed to avoid the McCauley AD. Good prop and only a concern if the FBO doesn't want it on their trainer.

Just because the owners spend excessive money doing unnecessary maintenance on their aircraft, doesn't mean you should have to pay for it. Why would any sane person replace a perfectly good fuel tank? They usually leak from cracks or splits from oilcanning, or from a retaining strap breaking and rubbing a hole thru it, either issue is easily a weld repair by an appropriate shop.

Charles

Hee Hee! Wrong person to ask this of, John. I have always had a preference for the 150 over the 152..........

Oh! And beginning in 1966, all the following 150's thru the 152's have the same cabin dimensions.

Students preferring the newer 152 over the older 150? Possibly. But you are going to be running into the same problem with the 162 now coming on line. If the 162 gains any popularity at all, this is the airplane that the flight schools will be turning to. And it will be the one to catch the student's eye.

You may also want to consider resale value. A lot of people shy away from airplanes that have been used in flight schools. Mainly for the very reasons that Carl, Bruce, and others have already described previously. Primarily, rode hard and put away wet with questionable maintenance. Does this flight school that you are thinking about leasing back to have their own airplanes? I believe that you will find that in most situations like this. The "owned" airplanes take priority over the "leased" airplanes.

May I ask, John? What is your primary purpose in purchasing this airplane? As personal pleasure or as a business venture?

Oh? And another one? What about those others in this flight school that have already advised you that leasing back is a good venture? What was their opinion concerning this 152 that you brought to us for our opinions??

Dang! And yet another question if I may? What could you do with the $10,000 that you could save by purchasing a 150 over a 152? Or, in the case of this particular 152 that you brought before us, $20,000+????


Now, this is just me talking here, John. And I really do not mean to sound critical. This is just personal views. If I were you, John. I would first choose an airplane to satisfy you. What makes YOU happy? What do YOU want? To spend more money on an airplane just so others can use, and probably abuse, it? That just does not make any sense to me........

Just trying to add food for thought, John!

Good point. I ordered the FAA CD on this plane, and it arrived yesterday. I was looking through it today and saw the STC on the prop. I asked them if it had any rpm limitations, and they said they had it re-pitched to eliminate that. Now my concern is that they have invalidated the STC. Is that true?

By the way, the 152 at the flight school has the Sensenich STC prop on it, with the rpm limitation.


Another good observation. I agree, if they felt they wanted to replace it, that is fine, but it may not have been needed.


Not trying to ruffle any feathers here!


Good to know. That gets rid of one of my objections.


I don't believe this is true. I don't see how a $110,000 plane can rent for the same price as a $27,000 plane. I think a lot of the popularity of the 152 is it's low rental price. That is why I am training in one.


They own the other 152. That may be the case, but I don't get that sort of vibe from the owners. At this point, I feel they would like to have another 152 on the line. It's more money in their pocket, since people are delaying lessons to wait for the 152 to come available. Another plane = more lessons per week.

I also don't plan on being a passive owner. I will be flying this plane on a regular basis, and will know how it is being maintained. The contract also states that I have to approve all maintenance items over $500, so they won't be doing unnecessary maintenance. I can also choose to have the maintenance done wherever I want. There is a certain amount of trust in all business relationships, and this is no different.


Of course you may ask! We're talking airplanes here, not politics!

The purpose is a little bit of both. Right now, I am paying them to fly their plane. I have budgeted the money for the private pilot training, but I know I will not be able to keep up the current frequency of flight once I am done. With a leaseback plane (at this particular school), a leaseback owner only has to pay for gas. That right there takes about 2/3 off the cost of flying.

I am not going into this, on the other hand, with the intention of losing money. If the numbers don't work out, then I will either not put the plane on leaseback, or not buy a plane altogether. That, of course, would put right back into renting and reduced flying time.


Well, most likely that would go into avgas, maintenance and upgrades (if needed).


They are the ones who sent me to this particular plane. They had no idea what these guys were asking for it, they had seen it around the airport and knew it was in good shape. I have told a few of them what the asking price is, and they all have said basically the same thing the group here says, it's not worth it.


Bill, I am taking all of this as constructive criticism. I really do appreciate all of it.

You're comment here gets into the great dichotomy of the leaseback. On the one hand, I agree with you, get what you want and be happy. On the other hand, it is possible to pick a plane that no one wants to rent, and you get stuck paying all the bills (this is assuming that you are trying to avoid paying the bills in the first place).

The common wisdom about leasebacks is that they are bad news. Only suckers buy a perfectly good plane and subject it to the abuse of student pilots and renters. The only people who win is the flight school, and they are all run by moustache-twirling bandits.

Now, this can't all be true, because there a lots of leasebacks all over the country. Pilots, as a whole, are pretty smart individuals. We all know that learning to fly a plane takes a level of skill not found in everyone. I am not trying to sound elitist, but I can't imagine some of the drivers I see on the road trying to handle a vehicle that travels in 3D and have to worry about airspace and radio calls at the same time!

So, if smart people are doing leasebacks, what is the possible benefit? And if they are so good, why isn't everyone doing it?

I think the answer to both these questions have the same answer. The reason people dislike leasebacks is because they don't like people messing up "their" plane. A plane on leaseback will have more maintenance and cosmetic issues than a privately held plane. Those are probably the same people who do not take their "customers" needs into account. Now you end up with a plane that is costing someone more than they thought and getting "messed" up more than they want. Not a recipe for success.

I am trying to not fall into that trap. I will be flying this plane less than my "customers", so I want to have something that meets their needs. If I don't take this into account, it is destined to be a failure. Like I said before, I'm not trying to become a millionaire from this, just get a few ratings and some experience. If I didn't do a leaseback, I may be just renting a 152. I think if done right, with the proper expectations, one can get a leaseback to pay for some experience and training that might not be readily available.

I am also not ruling out pulling the plane from the line if I am not happy with the results (for whatever reason).

For all I know, this discussion may lead me to re-think the whole thing!

John

One thing to realize when you have an airplane on leaseback to a school and they also have school owned aircraft, you can bet the school owned one will fly all the time, and your leaseback will only fly when theirs is booked or in maintenance. Even if you have the nicer, more popular airplane, they will start playing games with the scheduling to steer the students to their airplane.

Lease backs and the pitfalls and gotchas are a whole 'nuther thread, however..........

I really don't know what you mean by RPM limits, the Sensenich prop under the Sensenich STC (SA1219EA) is limited to 2550 takeoff and 2440 max continous, and the operations manual says that performance is the same as original (actually its better, they just don't want to say so, more certification hassles) The pitch is specified as being 52 thru 56 inches and full throttle static RPM must fall between 2100 and 2275 or either the pitch is not right or the engine performance is suffering in some way. You can look at the yellow tag or 8130 issued with the prop from the repitch to see what the new pitch of it is.

Charles

Charles

I once thought about leasing back a plane to an FBO. The insurance was way too much for me to justify it. Be sure to check to see how much the insurance will be. I think you'll have to reconsider the idea.

I paid $22K for a 1983 152 with similar description .... don't pay too much when you buy, because you certainly won't get it back when you sell.

Terry

Corey,
Will they include the dog?

Perhaps if you simply tell them what you are willing to spend, without necessarily refering to THEIR particular bird.

Do not leaseback. My info is second-hand, I confess, from fellow members of the Lincoln EAA chapter, but it is unanimous: Story is you'll get tired of a string of unhappy-making occurrences and end up telling them, at the last straw, what they can do with their lease.
Typical:
"Before you lease-back, talk to me."
"Well?"
"Don't start."

I'm quite happy with my leaseback arrangement. I guess it depends.

Martin,
I'm glad you are happy: the people make the difference. All the difference in the world. I could have leased my plane, but I met the people who'd be flying it!

A flying club -- eight guys already leasing a Cherokee 180 -- wanted to lease my 150 to give their club a lower-cost flying option. I attended their meeting. I heard them out. But one member remarked how it would be fun to go up and fly a 150 backwards. (Huh? Fly in windspeed higher than minimum controllable airspeed? IN MY PLANE?) I told them I'd think things over, and I later got back to them with a polite refusal. But they lost their chance right there.