Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes New Member. Help me buy my first airplane.

That interior fabric looks like "Eurostretch". It's available here:

Eurostretch from Texas Aeroplastics [buyplaneparts.com]

Tim,
Do an NTSB search by "N" number and see if this plane has any significanf damage history.Unless every aspect of this plane is perfect, $35K is way too high for any 150 / 152. I think this is the sellers opening number so he has plenty of room to negotiate.

Have a good pre-buy done by someone who is NOT linked to the seller to ensure an objective opionion.

FWIW, I bought a 1982 C-152 with dual Comm /navs and 650 SMOH for less than 20K. Deals are out there, dont buy the first thing you see. And dont let a new emeron paint job lead you into buying a flown out, worn out high time wreck.

Jim Foros N93122

I just wish I knew about this club before I jumped in. Not that I'm disappointed with Mary Lou... just with the way some of my expenditures were initially.

Update on my aircraft search:

On Friday afternoon, I went to see N704LF, the local bird with leather seats and only 850 hours, asking price: $35,000. It was owned by a father and son, sort of. It was actually owned by the dad and flown almost exclusively by the 22 year old son. Anyway, armed with the realization that a Cessna 150 would have to be practically perfect in order to deserve a price of $35,000, I looked very carefully at this plane. It was a very nice plane, but it was not, "practically perfect." The part that bugged me the most was the leather seats. I asked where they had been done and the owner said, "A local automotive shop." Hmm...I seem to recall something about the FAA and burn testing and so forth and I'm quite sure that those seats did not meet the FAA designation of airworthy. Also, there was lots of little cosmetic defects and it just wasn't the plane for me.


Although I was a little bit bummed that I didn't find the perfect plane on the first try, I kept trying. "Grants Pass" Bill had pointed me toward another local plane, N22741, but there wasn't too much information online and the seller didn't have many pictures.
http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=115340
Time for a phone call. I called up the owner and said, "I'd like to take a look at 22741 if it is still for sale." He said, "I'll meet you at the airpark in 15 minutes." I grabbed my wife, hopped in my truck, and went right down to take a look.

Not one to be too distracted by the paint job I went straight for the log books. John, the owner, is smart--he has comfy couches in his hangar. The logs are complete and didn't reveal any unpleasant surprises. (I already knew about the distant damage history). After deciding that the logs looked good, it was time to look at the plane.

Not bad at all. Shiny paint, clean engine compartment, not an excessive amount of corrosion. I like it. So I hop on in and make myself comfortable in the captain's seat. I feel right at home. Then John says, "As long as your are current, why don't you take her up for a test flight." And so I do.

He dials in 123.05 into the GPS/Com for the CTAF at Twin Oaks and shows me how to turn it on and off. I then start her up, taxi into position, perform my run up and take off.

I climb to a safe altitude and try steep turns and stalls. Squawk #1: stall horn doesn't seem to work. Oh well, she stalls nontheless and does it simply and easily. I then try trimming for hands-off operation and she flies straight and true. Now to find my way back to the airport. How does that GPS work again? I have no idea. I fiddle with it for a few minutes without success. Oh well. I will just have to use my brain to get back.

I do my best to land nicely as I know my wife and John are watching. I land right on the numbers and turn off at the first taxiway. Squawk #2: the engine runs roughly at idle when I pulled the power back upon landing.

John has to answer a call on his cell phone and this is a perfect chance to talk to my wife. "What do you think?" I asked. "I think you should buy it." She replied.

I made an offer, contingent on title search an pre-purchase inspection of course, and John accepted. Now it is a simple matter of making it happen.

So here is my question:

How do I find a good mechanic to do my pre-purchase inspection?

Here are the 3 I have heard of so far:

1. Bob Starks, owner of Twin oaks airpark where the plane is based, and mechanic of 4 Cessna 150 rentals.

2. Jeff Paulson, mechanic at Evergreen Avation in Scappose, and friend of the seller.

3. Jeff Carson, mechanic at Hillsboro Aviation, the largest Cessna Pilot center in Oregon.

Anyone from Oregon or ever heard of these guys? Anyone have someone else in Oregon they would recommend?

Also, should I get an "annual" inspection, or a "pre-purchase" inspection? The plane is not due for an annual until April.

Thanks for all of your help. I've only just joined here and already I feel like I am part of the family.

Tim -

Ususally the pre-purchase inspection is the equivalent of an annual. So, you might as well make it an annual. Don't forget to ensure who pays for the odds and ends that will be inevitably found to make the bird as close to 100% perfect.

AOPA has a pretty good standardized contract/purchase agreement on their website. It sets out who pays for what, and so on.

Bottom line - get it as an annual and from a disinterested mechanic.

To second Ed on getting the annual now from a dis-interested mechanic...If you find something now, you may have some bargaining power, or else, it's a good time to move on to the next one down the road.

If you wait for 6 months for the annual, and then you find something wrong, you'll have the devil of a time trying to prove that the fault existed at the time of purchase. Even then, you'd have no recourse with the seller.

There are no real guidlines on a prebuy, just whatever the buyer and his mechanic decide on. If you say you want an annual inspection, that scope, at least the minimum to be FAR compliant, is defined in FAR part 43. Then, you'll be off to a fresh start and if you assist, or at least look over the mechanic's shoulders (without getting in the way), you'll have a good understanding of at least what goes where and what looks okay, and what doesn't.

My suggestion...do not be afraid to ask all the questions you want to with your mechanic. If you're genuinely interested, a good mechanic will be happy to have you as a customer. If you nit-pick the mechanic and second guess everything he does, well.... he may not be able to make time for you when you need him next... That passive-aggressive behavior...

Congratulations on the find, and you're the perfect example of using this group to it's fullest when looking for a plane. Not to mention, you titled this thread perfectly!

Good luck with the prebuy and the title search. As for the stall horn not working, that's an easy fix. Inexpensive, too. If that's all there is, you should be all smiles.

Congrats on the making a decision to purchase, Tim. That is the first, and I believe the hardest, major step. I'll third the advice you already received from Ed and Gary about doing an annual. As far as the mechanic, my only suggestion is to find one that allows the owner to assist. I am a firm believer in the owner taking a hand in the maintenance of the aircraft. I can highly recommend an excellent mechanic down here in our neighborhood, but you will surely want to find somebody closer.

We have a number of folks across the state that like to get together from time to time, (Like this weekends Alvord Desert trip) If you would like, we can keep you informed of when we do some of these things. It would be great to have you join us from time to time.

Congrats again!

Congratulations on the find, Tim!

I also agree that a thorough inspection is mandatory! Keep in mind that the definition of "pre-purchase inspection" varies considerably with who you talk to. To some, a pre-buy is little more than a very thorough preflight inspection, which has little or no value to me in a purchase. A pre-buy can be whatever you request the inspector look at, either more or less detailed. It can take 30 minutes, or 2 weeks to perform!

It doesn't really matter whether you call it a "pre-buy" or an "annual". Done properly, I think they should really be the same inspection, except that the annual gets you a logbook entry that renews the legal airworthiness for another year (when it passes).

Examples:

Two identical aircraft are being inspected side by side, one getting an annual inspection, the other gets a pre-purchase inspection. Both have had the logbooks reviewed and screened. Both have had a close inspection of the exterior noting any discrepancies in fit and finish, dents, repairs, etc. Both have just been flown and the cowlings removed for the engine inspection, starting with the cylinder leakdown ("compression") check. With that out of the way, Both aircraft have all of the inspection panels and fairings removed, and enough of the interior to allow inspection of control cables, pulleys, linkages, etc. Both receive the same detailed inspection of engine, airframe structure, and systems for condition and operation. The bird getting the annual should have various components lubricated (as required for sign-off) during this process, while the pre-buy might not. Both inspections generate a list of discrepancies to be presented to the owner's and the buyer. The pre-buy inspection is completed and that aircraft is buttoned up and may be returned to service on it's current previous annual. No logbook entries are required for a pre-buy. The annual inspection requires the logbooks be signed off, so any downing discrepancies will need to be repaired first. Many owners don't realize that annual inspection and repair are two separate processes. You can have the aircraft inspected without having any repairs made. If no downing discrepancies are found, the aircraft should still be signed off, and remaining discrepancies reported to the owner for later repair.

[NOTE: The repairs required after an annual inspection can be done by another mechanic (who may have less expensive rates or more expertise in a particular area) or even by a non-mechanic under a mechanics direct supervision (such as owner assist). After completion of repairs to the original inspectors satisfaction, the annual is signed off in the logs by that mechanic/inspector.]

Some owners would object to having their aircraft disassembled for a "pre-buy" only (rightly so in some cases, I think). I think most would agree to splitting costs on an annual to make the sale, when they are confident in the condition of their aircraft.

The inspections (without repairs) of both aircraft above should cost about the same. The buyer nearly always pays all costs for the pre-buy. The cost of an annual can sometimes be negotiated and split with the owner on a pro-rated or other agreed upon basis (he gets a fresh annual if the deal falls through), and the owner generally pays for all repairs.

Even though the aircraft you are looking at isn't due for annual for half a year, neither you nor the owner have anything to loose, even if major discrepancies are found during the inspection (the owner eventually pays for those repairs anyway, whether you buy or not). You stand to realize a full year's flying before next annual, piece of mind, and maybe a good mechanic, too.

If I were shopping for a pre-purchase inspector/mechanic, my first requirement is that he/she does NOT know the owner, nor has done any of the recent annuals on this particular aircraft. Second, they should KNOW 150's (being "familiar" with Cessna's is not enough) or at least will have the inspection supervised and signed off by an A&P/IA that knows 150's. There is no substitute for experience and knowledge. Thirdly, the experienced mechanic should be available to become your personal mechanic and do your next annual after you purchase this aircraft (fewer surprises at next annual).

No two mechanics perform these inspections in exactly the same way, and some are more thorough than others, but ALL should meet minimum inspection reguirements as outlined in current aircraft and engine service manuals for that particular aircraft, and the FAR's. What one misses beyond that, another might catch later, or vice versa.

Tim,

Sounds like you may have found your bird. Big congrats!!!

I would recommend that you have the inspection done at a mechanic away from where it is based. Don't want the familiarity factor to get in the way of a good pre-buy.

I had Bob do a pre-buy on my Cardinal a few years ago and had a couple of issues with it, but nothing that wasn't unique to a Cardinal (which is quite different than most Cessna's).

Carl,
Good post but I disagree with one thing you said. If during the annual inspection the IA finds the aircraft unairworthy and the owner elects not to have the discrepancy(ies) immediately rectified, the IA writes in the appropriate logs that he completed an annual inspection, found the aircraft unairworthy, and furnished the owner with a written list of the discrepancies. The owner can have a mechanic (appropriately rated of course but does not need to have IA) of his choosing correct the discrepancies and sign the return to service for each. Once the list of grounding discrepancies have been fixed, the airplane is good to go without the original IA (or any IA) ever seeing the airplane again or writing another return to service entry in the log. It sounds rather weird, but that's the way it is (at least I'd be willing to bet you a beer it is). Most owners (at least me for one) would not want to have an "unairworthy" logbook entry or have to deal with a ferry permit if the airplane needed to be moved before the entry was cleared, so I would just have the IA fix it if possible. We just covered this in an A&P course I am taking.