Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes New Member. Help me buy my first airplane.

Thank you for this tip Bill. I actually read through all of his posts. I learned quite a few helpful tips along the way. It appears that Steven is trying to find the perfect plane--close to where he lives, relatively low time, impeccable paperwork, and good price. As near as I can tell, he hasn't found his bird yet.

I think he is a bit pickier than I am. I would rather havea good plane to fly now than a perfect plane to fly "someday".

Also, thanks to you Bill, I looked at this plane on barnstormers.com

http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_manager/ad_detail.php?ID=115340


What do you all think?
I know that the main reason I want to take a look at this plane is that it is close to home. I assume that the KLX135A is a VFR only gps. What would it take to make this plane IFR certified? I don't have any IFR training at this time, but I would like to.

I am collecting information on a total of 5 planes mentioned in this thread--the one in Washington, Texas, South Carolina, Minnesota, and this one in Oregon.

This is a very exciting process and my wife tells me to quit obsessing over it and just buy a plane already.

When you think you are interested in a plane, go to the clubs hangar section (ID = member number, password = zipcode) and "perform a document search" of the N number. This bird has damage history, but since it is over 20 years old, probably isn't a factor! A Google search of the N number will sometimes turn up this and other interesting information, such as an owners webpage documenting repairs, overhaul, refurb, incidents, etc.



This is a pretty aircraft, and appears well maintained by it's current owner. Old damage history isn't a big factor for me (proper repairs are), but it could be a bargaining chip affecting resale value. This one would definately warrant a very thorough pre-buy/annual inspection with attention to repairs.

OOPS! Sorry! Forgot to mention the aircraft above is N22741, from the Barnstormers ad!

(The time limit expired to edit my post!)

Yes, that's a VFR GPS. An old one at that but still not bad at all. There's not much req'd to make the bird IFR as I have found out. I'm planning to do the same thing (buy a VFR bird and convert to IFR). Assuming there's no leaks in the pitot static system, it only costs ~$200 (depending on what part of the country you're in) to get the pitot static system, transponder, and encoder certified for IFR use. I intend to install an IFR Approach GPS such as a KLN-89B or Garmin 155XL. Both can be bought factory refurbished and installed for around $2k. Something to think about if you plan do get your IR with the plane. Also, I suggest you pay attention to the layout of the instruments. The older planes don't have the standard 6 pack (as I think someone already pointed out).

I PMed you my cell phone number. Give me a call or shoot me an email and I'll give the guy a call about the TX plane.

Oh! And don't let your wife rush you! She won't like your first annual bill if you're not very careful with what you buy!

Thanks for the tip. I learned a couple of things about the planes I am interested in, but I did learn that this database is incomplete. One of the planes (23304) was reported by the owner to have 2 different accidents in the late 1970s, and the database has a cryptic line of
So I suppose this is helpful if it discloses damage previously unknown to the buyer, but not so helpful if it shows nothing.

I have a few more questions about aircraft buying in general. I am an AOPA member, and have read through all of their (mostly helpful) articles on aircraft buying. I plan to use AOPA for my title search when the time comes, and also for my liability and hull insurance.

Is there any utility to obtaining AOPA's "FAA Airworthiness Directives Report" or "FAA Service Difficulty Report?" All of this information appears to be on the hanger section of this website, so I'd rather save my $68 if I can.

Also, is title insurance available or worthwhile for a Cessna 150 purchase? I know when I bought my house, title insurance was part of the title search package, but it does not appear to be that way with a title search through AOPA.

What is the actual cost vs benefit of hangar rental vs outdoor tiedown? It would seem that hangaring an airplane would help preserve the paint, plastic, and interior better, but how much? Local hangar prices (of which none are currently available) run about $250-300 a month. That's a minimum of $3000 a year. Outdoor tiedown is about $300 a year. I find it hard to believe that storing a plane outside to prevent sun or rain damage would cause $2700 worth of damage in a year. Also, it almost seems like taking that extra $3000 and going flying with it would be a much more fun use of the money. I know if I lived in a colder climate, I would see more need for a hangar, but I wonder what all of you think.

That's right, and I should have mentioned that! Not all accidents/incidents are reported to the FAA/NTSB, nor are they required to be unless there has been a fatality or injury to someone on board, or substantial damage to the aircraft, while occupied for the intention of flight. Most ground incidents don't qualify, and some that do qualify never get reported (wing tip damage resulting from a ground loop at a private field, for instance ..... define "substantial" damage).

There are a good number of aircraft flying today that have been repaired or even rebuilt after an incident, and there is no official record of it with any government agency. Aircraft flipped on their backs during a storm or suffering flood damage or collision with a ground vehicle or another aircraft while tied down are common examples. Hangar rash (even if the roof caved in on the airplane) is typically never reported. True, major repair is supposed to be documented on a form 337, but included information is often sketchy and misleading. "Replaced RH wing assembly ..." doesn't tell you why it was replaced. I have seen rebuilt aircraft legally signed off with a normal annual inspection as though no repairs were ever accomplished.

This is just one of the reasons why a pre-buy inspection is so important prior to purchase by an inexperienced buyer (I prefer a complete and detailed annual by an impartial A&P/IA intimately familiar with the aircraft type). Someone not familiar with the aircraft type wouldn't know what to look for.

As I've said in earlier posts, old damage history is relatively unimportant, as long as all repairs were properly accomplished. For me personally, a properly done repair will be invisible, indistinquishable from factory original construction. (Considering some of the factory work I've corrected, repairs can sometimes be stronger and safer than original.) Something as simple as a patch on an elevator or flap on an otherwise nice 150/152 would not be disqualifying, as these are easily replaced subassemblies that are readily available and aren't cost prohibitive repairs.

I'm really not trying to scare you! Every potential purchase has to be considered on it's own merits, and none are risk free. There are loads of good and safe aircraft for sale at reasonable prices and low risk. Knowledge is your best assurance of identifying and limiting that potential risk.

Hangar vs. tiedown
Reasons I keep my airplane in a hangar:
1. Texas sun just beats the heck out of everything
2. What the sun doesn't get, the wind and dust do
3. What the sun, the wind, and the dust don't get, hail does
4. I can work on the plane and keep all my tools and "stuff" handy and just lock up the hangar
5. I use autogas and keep a 55 gallon drum in the hangar.
6. I store stuff that would clutter up my garage at home.
7. If it's raining, I still have an excuse to go to the airport and putter around
8. If I lived in snow country, I wouldn't have to deice the airplane and get snow off of it
9. During cold weather, it's easy to preheat
10. I've got electricity and water