| | Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,389 Likes: 923 Member/10,000+ posts! | | Member/10,000+ posts! Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,389 Likes: 923 | Matt,
That thing would probably get up and talk. I've flown the 180 HP conversion on a tailwheel 150 and towed gliders with it, but it wasn't a terribly pleasant airplane to fly in level flight. I'm trying to wrap my head around the Grumman conversion - I've flown all the two-seaters and would never consider any of them as short field airplanes. All have a flat climb angle, even though the rate is about the same as a 150, the climb speed is much faster.
I never thought the two-seaters had enough fuel - it was carried inside the cylindrical spars, so space was limited. They were efficient as heck, quite fast for the power. With that in mind, I'm thinking about the increased speed (probably only modest, going faster with power is a squared function) and radically increased fuel burn. Then again, if you want an airplane that handles like a fighter and also has a great rate of climb, that conversion may be it. After all, the Spitfire only had about 90 minutes of fuel initially, I think.
Warmest regards,
Rick | | | | | Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,389 Likes: 923 Member/10,000+ posts! | | Member/10,000+ posts! Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,389 Likes: 923 | > Interesting < [ bondline.org] Ken Blackman received approval to move the "Sparrow Hawk" high compression STC from Cessna 152s to the AA-1C Lynx, SA641NW.
Maynard Crosby received approval for an installation of the Tiger O-360-A4K in Cheetah and Traveler airframes, effectively converting the Cheetah to a Tiger, though the Traveler became a "Super Traveler" with the limitations in fuel capacity and CG limits from the smaller tail.
Peter Otten received SA5452NM to install the 200 HP IO-360-C1C6 and Hartzell C/S prop from a Piper Arrow onto a Cheetah. As part of the conversion, the option of increasing the GW by replacing the center spar with a Tiger part allowed recovery of the UL lost with the change in engine and prop weights. After years of keeping the multiple STC unavailable to the public, Peter sold the rights to FletchAir, and they eventually sold the rights to Scott Jernigan, who re-engineered the drawings and coined the term "Hyper-Cheetah", saying that if the 180 HP Tigerization made a Super Cheetah, the next higher superlative would be "Hyper", which coincided with his Hyperdyne Systems business name.
John Coze received approval to install a 260 HP IO-540-D4A5 engine and Hartzell C/S prop on his Cheetah, SA4966NM.
There are many other one-off conversions with 4 and 6 cylinder engines installed on the Cheetah/Tiger airframe, but none are multiple STCs or available to the public at this time.
Bengie, I knew that airframe had a reputation for being strong, but wow. Your signature line is a hoot! Warmest regards, Rick | | | | | Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,842 Likes: 259 Member/2500+posts | | Member/2500+posts Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,842 Likes: 259 | Andrew,
It's funny, we never even considered starting in the hangar. I think it was probably against club rules and there was a sort of feeling that we didn't want to blow junk into the hangar, plus there was that uncomfortable, nagging thought that something really bad could happen... Over the years I've come to listen to that thought.
Warmest regards,
Rick Rick Id never consider starting in the hangar either. I Consider it unsafe. But have seen it done. Both taxi in and out.
Last edited by Tactic; 02/06/13 11:36 AM.
| | | | | Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,389 Likes: 923 Member/10,000+ posts! | | Member/10,000+ posts! Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,389 Likes: 923 | Andrew,
Agree, and have seen it as well.
When I was a kid the original United hangar was still in place on the Des Moines Airport. Those hangars were huge (back then) square hangars with full-length doors on opposite sides. The 247s and later DC-3s would taxi in to the hangar, do the unload and load pax bit, then start up and taxi out. Everyone stayed dry.
The United hangar in Iowa City was torn down only recently. Sad.
Warmest regards,
Rick | | | | | Joined: May 2009 Posts: 3,361 Likes: 4 Member/2500+posts | | Member/2500+posts Joined: May 2009 Posts: 3,361 Likes: 4 |  Well, the 'old' me would have used just 2 words... Last one being, "you" [quote=Jim_Hillabrand][quote=Tim_Noto] Well, let's see.......one time on a hot day in Nevada off of a dirt strip we watched a Grumman, (Don't know which type), go through the fence at the end of the runway while we in our "heavy" 100hp 150 departed quite handily. But, even with this, I will apologize when I questioned the Grumman as being an "awesome" airplane and put a plug in for the 150-152 on this 150-152 Forum. Bill Sheesh LIGHTEN THE HECK UP will ya? I gave 600+ hours of dual instruction in an 180Hp Tiger (not Grumman at that point) I LOVE teaching in the plane AND it was the first airplane other than a Citabria or Cessna 150/152 I ever taught in so I was a bit reluctant to like the airplane... It was an amazing performer, you had to get it really slow and feed the power in slowly to get a power on stall. I became VERY impressed with the design and execution of the airplane. We fueled them to the tabs and that gave them about 2 hours endurance so we had lots of excess power. But what do I know?
Max!
I miss John Ruffo
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 15,868 Likes: 977 Member/15,000 posts | | Member/15,000 posts Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 15,868 Likes: 977 |
I gave 600+ hours of dual instruction in an 180Hp Tiger (not Grumman at that point) I LOVE teaching in the plane AND it was the first airplane other than a Citabria or Cessna 150/152 I ever taught in so I was a bit reluctant to like the airplane...
It was an amazing performer, you had to get it really slow and feed the power in slowly to get a power on stall. I became VERY impressed with the design and execution of the airplane. We fueled them to the tabs and that gave them about 2 hours endurance so we had lots of excess power.
But what do I know?
Ya, what do you know, Noto? Bill saw ONE go off the end of a 2870' Dirt runway at an airport that has an elevation of 4,899', in Nevada, on a hot day so they ALL must be bad preforming airplanes. 
Ron Stewart N5282B KSFZ ![[Linked Image from visitedstatesmap.com]](https://www.visitedstatesmap.com/image/CTILINIAMEMANHNJNYOHPARIVTWVsm.jpg) | | | | | Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,389 Likes: 923 Member/10,000+ posts! | | Member/10,000+ posts! Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,389 Likes: 923 | Tim,
In envy mode - I gave a few hundred hours of (mostly instrument) dual in Cheetahs, only a few tens of hours experience in Tigers. Learned to love the control authority and responsiveness in the Cheetah and then discovered the performance of the Tiger. (Thinking of an Cheetah instrument cross country with an instrument student and two pax when we had calculated W & B very carefully but simply could not make the airplane climb at more than 200 FPM at 7000 feet, so amended our flight plan to take that as a final rather than the 9,000 for which we'd filed.
Also learned that honeycomb bonding makes for a heck of a strong structure.
Warmest regards,
Rick | | | | | Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,842 Likes: 259 Member/2500+posts | | Member/2500+posts Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,842 Likes: 259 | Never heard anything bad about the Tiger, but Bill's discription sounds a lot like the origonal American AA-1. | | | | | Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,969 Member/10,000+ posts! | | Member/10,000+ posts! Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,969 | ..... by just listening to word of mouth these aircraft,like most higher performance aircraft, (appear to) require to be payed a lil more attention, are unforgiving to complacency and are geared to a more specific market of speed sacrificing the versatility as found in your typical Cessna? Bill saw ONE go off the end of a 2870' Dirt runway at an airport that has an elevation of 4,899', in Nevada, on a hot day so they ALL must be bad preforming airplanes. Ya know, I believe that this is the only aircraft type forum where a person gets into trouble for showing appreciation for the type!  Bill | | | | | Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 766 Member/750+posts | | Member/750+posts Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 766 | Rick,
He has tanks in the wing ends, I forget the added amount, but I saw it with the tips off and they are cylinders that fit between the rib holes (if I am getting that right).
I went with him to a Grumman fly-out in my 150 (which meant I was the whipping boy for fun) but I came to like them after that.
Side note:
It was at this flyout I had a long discussion of Sensenich versus Mcauley with Ken. If I had the dough he made a good case.
'69 Buckfitty.
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