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Joined: Dec 2003
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Hi Carl,

Don't worry. I deserve all your comments. I have another question for you. My aircraft is a Cessna 150L. The intersting part is that, when you do a search on landings.com, it pop's up as a 1970 model. When the lenders did a title search, it came out as a 1971 model. It get's even more interesting. It has landing lights on both the wing leading edge and at the front nose. I went through the logs and wing replacement is not indicated. What do you think about that?

Ari Hovnanyan
6780G

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Sorry Steve, I accidentally posted a message addressed to Carl to you.

What do you think about my question to Carl?

Ari Hovnanyan
6780G

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Hello Carl. I appreciate your comments. I truly deserve everything you said. Here is my next question: Is it weird that my 150L has landing lights on the wing leading edge and the nose? When you do a landings.com search, it comes out to be a 1970 model; however the title search conducted by the lender indicated that it was a 1971 model 150. Isn't that interesting? It has lights on both locations, however I?m only able to operate the nose light with the panel switch.

What do you think?

Ari Hovnanyan
6780G

Joined: Jan 2004
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Quote
Hello Carl. I appreciate your comments. I truly deserve everything you said. Here is my next question: Is it weird that my 150L has landing lights on the wing leading edge and the nose? When you do a landings.com search, it comes out to be a 1970 model; however the title search conducted by the lender indicated that it was a 1971 model 150. Isn't that interesting? It has lights on both locations, however I?m only able to operate the nose light with the panel switch.

From the FAA's perspective, the date when the Airworthiness Certificate is issued determines the year.

Cessna goes by model year (just like the automobile manufacturers). What's the serial number? We can set you straight.

As for your many landing lights.... has the cowling been replaced? I don't know the year when Cessna moved the landing lights from the wing to the cowl.


Stephen A. Mayotte

1978 Cessna R182 N7333Y
Boire Field
Nashua, NH
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My aircraft is a Cessna 150L. The intersting part is that, when you do a search on landings.com, it pop's up as a 1970 model. When the lenders did a title search, it came out as a 1971 model.

That's not at all unusual. Cessna uses model years, the FAA uses calendar years. It's not uncommon for the FAA to call it one year and for Cessna to consider it another. When performing any maintenance, servicing, parts ordering, etc., go by the serial #.


Quote
It has landing lights on both the wing leading edge and at the front nose. I went through the logs and wing replacement is not indicated.

Sounds like someone changed the nose bowl. That would be far easier and cheaper than changing a wing. Any mention of a prop-strike or collapsed nose-wheel in the logs? That would explain it.

In checking the club's web-site of year-to-year changes, the 1971 "L" model was the first year when the landing lights moved from the wing to the nose. If yours was an early production "L" model (starting serial #15072004) produced late in 1970 as a 1971 model, it's possible it got 'leftover' "K" wings and the new "L" nose at the factory. That would be interesting!


-Kirk Wennerstrom
President, Cessna 150-152 Fly-In Foundation
1976 Cessna Cardinal RG N7556V
Hangar D1, Bridgeport, CT KBDR
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Dan Offline
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Ari, I'm sure I speak for all the members of the club when I say I'm sorry to hear of your situation. When an airplane or boat starts sucking at your bank account the balance can deteriorate an an astonishing rate. Very discouraging. Hopefully you'll get ahead of the power curve and be able to enjoy the little bird when it's finally brought up to the condition you thought you paid for in the beginning. As a side note, my Mode C is currently inoperative. Don't know why, but I'm sure it won't be a cheap fix. Ahhhh, the privlages of ownership!


Dan

Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. (Mark Twain)


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Thanks, Ari!

You are very gracious! Yes, it is unusual to find landing/taxi lights in both the wing and cowl on any 150! I looked at internet sources of general information, compared differences in the various models on the Club website, and looked at N6780G in the clubs "Document Search" database access located in "Members Hangar".

The 1971 150L production run was from s/n 15072004 manufactured in late 1970, to s/n 15072628 built in late 1971. N6780G is s/n 15072280 built in 1970, the 276th 150L built of 624 1971 models. The year on FAA registrations reflects the aircraft airworthiness certification date; not the manufacturers model year! My 1970 150K is registerd with the FAA as a 1969 (the certification year). All aircraft manufacturers who observe model years other than January 1st through December 31st endure this same confussion at the hands of the FAA (not to mention aircraft owners).

All 150L's had their Landing/Taxi lights in the cowl when they left the factory. I'm sure none left the factory with these lights in the wings. It is possible your original wing has been modified for whatever reason. I find this highly unlikely! In the clubs database access and the FAA database, there is an entry for 6780G under Accident/Incident dated 22-06-78. That's all! Just the date and no narrative! It is most probable that the wing has been replaced with an earlier model wing, and I suspect it has to do with something that happened on or just before June 22, 1978.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions, just yet! There is nothing I've found that proves the aircraft was in an accident. There could have been an "incident" in 1978 having nothing to do with the wing replacement. An FAA entry about my 150K tells of making a forced landing (to a road) after one previous IDIOT pilot knowingly took off with very little fuel onboard (...no damage). It may have been cheaper to replace the wing for a number of reasons, from severe hangar rash to corrosion to a fuel truck backing into the wing. In any case, the repairs should have been documented!

I'd do more research on the aircrafts history, first. Start with your logbooks, and look for anything from day one that suggests wing related repairs, especially mid to late 1978 or later. Look for long durations with little or no accumalated flight time. Assuming there is no adequate documentation of repairs, try to find the names of the previous owners (especially in June 1978), and the mechanics/IA who signed off the annuals (especially the first annual after that date). See if you can find their addresses in the FAA database. Contact them (using friendly language; Maybe you want to thank them for this wonderful modification to your wing, and can they do it to the right wing?). See if they can or will shed light on the wing "mod".

It bothers me that your mechanic apparently didn't mention this in his pre-buy inspection. It would seem that this would be an obvious discrepancy, requiring explanation and documentation in the logs. Then again, after looking at hundreds of wing and cowl lights, it's possible he simply didn't notice (ever left the house with one black and one brown sock?).

Ari, I hope I've answered your questions, and I wish I didn't have to raise these others, but that's what friends do, right? Please let me know if I can help further! Perhaps another member has ideas on where to get more information?!

A friend,
Carl

From an earlier post by Greg Hopp:

Quote
Since it has been awhile, and since I just left the site, I thought I would post for the benefit of the group the web site address where you can order all registration and airworthiness documents from the FAA. The web site is https://diy.dot.gov/fac.htm and the cost for a CD ROM containing all docs the FAA has on your very own plane is only $5.00. The web site takes credit cards too.

Last edited by Carl_Chitwood; 04/03/04 12:03 PM.
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In the clubs database access and the FAA database, there is an entry for 6780G under Accident/Incident dated 22-06-78. That's all! Just the date and no narrative!

Here's the link to the incident/accident:

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=40430&key=0

The gist of the report is a 100-hour pilot ran out of fuel and had an off-airport landing.

TYPE OF ACCIDENT / PHASE OF OPERATION
ENGINE FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION / IN FLIGHT: DESCENDING
NOSE OVER/DOWN / LANDING: LEVEL OFF/TOUCHDOWN

DAMAGE-SUBSTANTIAL

PROBABLE CAUSE(S)
PILOT IN COMMAND - MISMANAGEMENT OF FUEL
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - MISCALCULATED FUEL CONSUMPTION
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - FUEL EXHAUSTION
COMPLETE POWER LOSS - COMPLETE ENGINE FAILURE/FLAMEOUT-1 ENGINE
EMERGENCY CIRCUMSTANCES - FORCED LANDING OFF AIRPORT ON LAND

This is the only incident I can find for that N-number.


-Kirk Wennerstrom
President, Cessna 150-152 Fly-In Foundation
1976 Cessna Cardinal RG N7556V
Hangar D1, Bridgeport, CT KBDR
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Quote
DAMAGE-SUBSTANTIAL


Kinda says it all, doesn't it? Looks like we just might wind-up close to where we started!


Wire Paladin, San Francisco
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