Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes prebuy question

Sounds good to me! Mike.

Wow. Nice avionics package. That's worth a lot! The cost to install all of that stuff from scratch would be enormous.

Until 1996, 46S was used by the Baltimore County Police to give me a speeding ticket every time i drove through MD. They used the mixer to tie into all other aircraft and land vehicles to get me if I tried to outrun them. The headsets are helicopter type so they could interchange to , I guess helicopters.

That's what confused me a bit, because everything seems solid w/ the plane except the alternating OH's.(which is a biggy to me) I'll double check Sunday.


Thanks for all the great feedback.
Jerry

There is a some truth there. Just last night I spoke to a gentleman with an engine that so far I'd be comfortable buying from. He is removing the engine for a 150 hp upgrade, which is one of the few "good" reasons to be removing it. He seemed to be trustworthy when I was talking to him.

The flip side is that, at least for a first time buyer, we are somewhat clueless as to what to look for. I certainly was. Remember, just because the owner may believe that nothing is wrong with their plane, that doesn't mean it is true. Otherwise, engine failures would be unheard of, and there would never be surprises at annual inspection.

After owning a plane for a few years, we are far more qualified to give it a look see ourselves and go with our gut instinct. The typical first time buyer certainly is not, so I cannot agree that the inspection is a waste of money. The trick is to find a balance between the owner and their mechanics opinion which is that the airplane is perfect, and the mechanics hired to do the pre-buy who probably feels that they aren't doing their job if they don't come up with a long list of "problems".

I've said it before; the smart thing to do is to have a mechanic who has never seen the plane before do a good pre-buy. Then take the list of discrepancies and talk to an owner or two to see if they are really something to worry about. Even better, post the list here and ask for experienced opinions. If you have the time, observe or participate in the inspection.

And while we are on the subject, one very important piece of advice for sellers: Never, ever just drop your plane off for a pre-buy inspection!! You need to supervise the inspection to insure that you get the plane back in the same condition it was when you presented it.

Jerry, I'm not sure what to say about the alternating overhauls. Right now, I'm at about 1750 SMOH, but 650 on new cylinders. On top of that, all the cylinders have been reconditioned since. In my case, it would be acceptable to just do the bottom and the engine would be identical to one with 650 SMOH. Then why not run it until it's time to do the top again? The bottom would still be fine. The difference would be in name only; it would still need to be referred to as 1750+ SMOH. And that is the problem. It would be more difficult to sell.

If everything else looks good, such as the screen/filter we talked about, compressions, and the oil pressure I might be inclined to think of it as 495 SMOH. Even if it legally isn't.

There is the chance that some shortcuts were taken, but that can happen with a major overhaul done in the field too. There just is no way to tell. If the owner has been doing oil analysis at oil changes, that might help.

Edit: Ooops! I think I made a mistake here! Was the top 4-500 hours before the bottom end overhaul which was 495 hours ago? If so, then it is more like an engine with 1,000 hours since major. Unless of course, the cylinders were removed, overhauled and put back on. If the cylinders haven't been replaced or overhauled in about 1,000 hours, then he really shouldn't be advertising as 495 SMOH. That is a bit of a red flag. And if the cyls have that much time on them, plan on needing a top end overhaul sooner than later!

One thing about asking a bunch of pilots for an opinion is that you won't be lacking in opinions.

Here are mine ...

A pre-buy should just give you an idea whether you want to pursue further. I would have it annualed as a condition of the purchase. With an annual, you have recourse. From experience, I can tell you that the FAA will go after an IA who missed important items during an annual. The pre-buy has no official standing.

Pick an experienced mechanic (just one) and an experienced pilot to go over the logs and the airplane.

If the logs were properly filled out when the overhaul work was done a good mechanic can tell if a proper job was done or not. If the logs are sketchy, well, I'd walk.

Reg

Thanks,
The annual was signed off 2-1-08 by the owners mechanic, who I will also be using, (if he doesn't snow me) and keeping the plane @ the same airfield. I have still not decided against a prebuy by someone else.
Jerry

Jerry,

One thing not to be overlooked is a corrosion inspection of the airframe. I learned the hard way about corrosion as did Sandra.

Let me know if you need some guidence on this.


Jim

Hi Jerry,
Sorry I missed that you are from Ma. I live in Douglas and fly out of SFZ in RI.

I have one bit of advice for you reguarding using the mechanic that has benn servicing the plane for your pre-buy inspection.

DON'T DO IT !!!

Find another mechanic to look it over. You can still use the on field mechanic after you but it, if you buy it.

If there are things that have been overlooked, for what ever reason, and should have been addressed will be overlooked again and you could end up on the hook for some expensive repairs down the road.

Kind of like you should never proof read your own writing.
Always have someone else look at it.

Hope to see you at one of our Northeast gatherings soon.

o k