Just wanted to mention that the mechanic doing the annual has all the books - so it may take a little time for me to get back to you with any questions.
Sweet! That airplane is 25 airframes after mine. While the annual is being done, have your IA remove the no spin placard. It is not effective for the 150E airframe per the AD.
Niall 1965 C150E N3952U ASEL IFR A&P Army Aviation Veteran
Boy, that is a nice little airplane! Heavy-duty nose-gear, long-range tanks, decent time on the engine.
(From the Barnstormers Ad): BEAUTIFUL CESSNA 150 • $16,900 • FOR SALE • Cessna 150E - Exterior 7, Interior 6. Engine: approximately 750. Airframe: Approximately 2800. Annual being done on it now. Has glide slope, DME, ADF. Long range tanks. Heavy duty nose gear. Flies great. Serious buyers only. New carburetor and mufflers. Often get comments that this is a clean little plane. Certified for IFR flights (pitot static system check) I am a flight instructor and will include some instruction in this airplane as a bonus if you buy it. • Contact Anthony J. Rubiano, Owner - located Brockport, NY USA • Telephone: 585-331-1788 .
Or even if I could get three individuals who want to learn to fly to each contribute 5600 (make a partnership or a club) - i could instruct them and they would get their private pilot certificate, be third owner in the airplane and I could keep on flying it (instructing them i mean) - a win-win situation. But I'm thinking it would be hard to find three such individuals - especially all the way up here in the north.
Eric, you might look at the possibility of incorporating in the US, having the corporation buy the plane, then you lease it from the corporation. The plane would retain US registration.
This might make it easier to deal with Canadian law.
Haha! Well I appreciate the thinking outside the box! But it is more about money than law. There are apparently painful and expensive hoops to jump through for import. But right now the real deal killer is the exchange rate. I have to add better than 30% to the buying price just to account for the dollar exchange. Just a killer.
That looks like a sweet little bird. Great options. Maybe it's not moving because of where you are. Seems like out west that thing would be bought up in a heartbeat. Great candidate for one of my hot rod TD 150,150's. Manual flaps and big tanks are a must and getting harder to find.
Surely someone will want that thing at that price.
Mike
There are those that fly and those that wish they could.
That looks like a sweet little bird. Great options. Maybe it's not moving because of where you are. Seems like out west that thing would be bought up in a heartbeat. Great candidate for one of my hot rod TD 150,150's. Manual flaps and big tanks are a must and getting harder to find.
Surely someone will want that thing at that price.
If there are one or two students in the Rochester area who would like to form a partnership or club and buy this airplane - I would be willing to give flight instruction myself til they got their private pilot certificates if they let me use the airplane occasionally. If they formed a flying club I could be the flight instructor. (partially for selfish reasons - I do like this airplane and I love instructing). I could also be the clubs official flight instructor.
of all the cessna 150's I believe that the 150D and 150E have one of the best useful loads (plus the only years that have the advantage of both the rear window and the straight tail). if you go to the club home page they have a chart you can download that shows the specifications by year and the useful load in each (although that could differ by options on the airplane).
The first Aeroplane I ever owned was an E model - I did like that plane, except for the small wheels....I remember thinking it was pretty good because I had a T12C ADF fitted - actually my current Aerobat has the same ADF - I still think theyre a good ADF
VH-DML S No.15061037 first entered service (here in Oz) in March 1965, it was mine in 1983, that's a while back now - gee where did that time go....
Sho Nuf, I find that peeps that take the time to join clubs like this are more likely to be "On the Ball" than the average shmuck. When Pa and I sold N35151 ('75 177B) we sold it to members of our flying club. Better family than "flippers" or "Gyppers"
Wal
There are Old Pilots and Bold Pilots, but no Old Bold Pilots
I would like to announce that I am once again an Aircraft Owner
SIERRA HOTEL!!!
And such a beautiful bird, too.
I suggest that you click on the Barnstormers link and do a screen capture -- that's as great a feeling as the first time you drive up to the house you're buying and see the "SOLD" sign.
One thing you might want to know is that the airplanes of our vintage is that the N# is related to the S/N of the acft. Not a big whoop de do but it's why I wouldn't change the N# of my plane. I have 2 N#s reserved but 52U is staying on my plane. Perhaps a future purchaser might like it that way.
But it's your plane, do what you want with it
Niall 1965 C150E N3952U ASEL IFR A&P Army Aviation Veteran
See, this is what I was talking about....... However, I have not any plans to 'flip' 77U, it will no doubt go to my heirs.....(unless I make a smoking hole in the ground with it), my Godson Matt wants to get his ticket and I have offered to help him by letting him use it in his pursuit of same when I'm in his 'hood.
There are Old Pilots and Bold Pilots, but no Old Bold Pilots
Yup, plunked down $10 bucks per number, a number change is no big deal anyway, have a friend who paints for a living..... I just wanted to see what the reaction was.... Been looking for an airplane for some time to replace Cardinal 151, So I am not a rookie in this en-devour...
There are Old Pilots and Bold Pilots, but no Old Bold Pilots
My airplane is available again. After two months the buyer was unable to come up wit the funds to complete the sale. I am now more motivated to sell as this has set me back two months.
I'm going to lower the price to $14,900. The previous buyer purhcased for $15,900 - but didn't come up with the funds and put me into a bad selling period. I hate to let it go for this amount but I realize I am in a bad market. I'll be renewing my ad on barnstormers later today. I just want to emphasize this is a really nice plane and it is currently instrument certified. This would make a nice instrument trainier for some lucky pilot.
If your airplane was in Ontario, it'd be snapped up for sure. Being IFR certified, a good looker with good glass, low times... $20K in Canuck-bucks is fantastic compared to what is currently in the Canadian market.
Consider advertising in Canada, and maybe get in touch with a shop that could handle the import. It's red and white scheme practically screams "Paint a maple leaf on the tail and send me to Canada!" Even if it cost $5K to import it, I think it's still a good value. I highly recommend Cornwall Avaiation [cornwallaviation.com], they did my pre-buy and have a great reputation. My experience with Steve Small was excellent. Brant Aero [brantaero.com] is also highly regarded, and perhaps more convenient. They're a large & busy shop, and may be a bit more $$ but they are fair. There are other options around too.
Shoot... I'm half considering it just to get the lower time engine and IFR cert!
There is a person in Oregon who is interested in the plane but he would want to have it delivered. I am not in a position to do this for a few months because of my schedule. Is there anyone in the club who would be interested in delivering it? If so - how much would you charge? Is there anyone who would be interested in doing it for expenses?
I could do it for expenses and I am interested! I have standby privileges so that would help keep the costs down. Just last summer I helped another member move a 150 from WI to PA. PM me if you are interested.....
James Rhoades, A&P 5729E '59 150TD "BarFly" N76040 '46 120 SOLD
Thanks I'll let you know. I don't know what is the matter with people. I'm having people trying to chisel me down to 12500, 13000 not even looking at it.
This is a good airplane, good engine only 736 hours good paint instrument certified , long range tanks.
I said if you want to spend 12500 look for an airplane that needs work.
I said if you want to spend 12500 look for an airplane that needs work.
You can purchase a decent straight tailed 172 now in the teens.............
.....so........
You may want to rethink that attitude in today's soft market, which is only getting softer. We consider ourselves very fortunate that we were able to sell our 150 as "fast" as we did, (over a year), for we have several friends who have had their airplanes on the market several years now trying to get a "fair" value out of them. Now we have a better understanding of why the number of derelicts sitting at airports continue to grow in numbers.........
Good point - I changed it to Price Slashed which more accurately reflects what I was trying to say. I am motivated - and that is why I slashed the price - but I don't want to give it away.
A straight tailed 172 with low time - a good engine - instrument certified that needs little or no work? Or maybe you have a different definition of "decent". I can't imagine a "decent" flyable straight tailed 172 that won't need some work.
Hmm I'd like to see some of those. I feel pretty convinced that my airplane is worth much more than 12,500. when I mentioned that to the lady who offered that - she came back and told me that "12,500 was a total lowball" but figured she would ask. she said my price is a very good price.
It's a shame that people are bidding that low. The engine itself at mid time is worth that much. They're just looking for a free airframe. Flying to Oregon this time of year would be dicey since you have to cross the Rockies. With a 150 you'd be flying the southern route and even then your altitudes will be in excess of 7,000' MSL. Good planning, good timing and some luck will get it across OK.
I wish I was in the market right now, sounds like a gem at a great price! I paid a bit more than 12.5 and its VFR only.
Best wishes finding a serious buyer!
Niall 1965 C150E N3952U ASEL IFR A&P Army Aviation Veteran
Someone from Bolivia is interested in it and coming on Saturday to look at it. Does anyone know if there are any hidden fees or taxes I should be concerned about?
If I sold it to him and he took it out of the country am I considered the exporter or is he. In other words if I sell it in this country but he takes it to Bolivia - is he exporting it or am I exporting it?
make sure you get written proof of sale. I got burned on a car I sold and had to pay fines up the wazoo even though state does not require me to have proof of the sale. I'm sure with the purchase of an aircraft there haste be some way to trace it but I always write my own bill of sale from now on to avoid problems.
make sure you get written proof of sale. I'm sure with the purchase of an aircraft there haste be some way to trace it but I always write my own bill of sale from now on to avoid problems.
This shows the back of an aircraft registration card. When there's a change in registration (sale, destroyed, owner died, etc), the owner/estate representative fills it out, signs it, and mail to the FAA to record the change.
There is also the FAA required Bill of Sale form (if memory serves, it's form 8050-2?).
8050-2 has all the pertinent data that's required to be filled in:
Date of sale, seller, buyer, aircraft ID by N number, make, model and aircraft serial number, etc.
Without 8050-2 there is no legal sale or change in ownership.
This is the form that still uses carbon paper which results in (I think) 3 copies:
The top original page, signed in ink, is sent to the FAA, this is what they use to record the sale and change of ownership.
A pink copy that is kept in the aircraft by the new owner and used as a temporary registration.
And the last one is for the new owner to keep with his paperwork.....it's kind of an extra copy that is not typically used for anything.
This 8050-2 is important (that means vital) and it will trump any other bill of sale related to a sale.
This 8050-2 requires the signatures of both buyer and seller so again, this form is important and it needs to be done.
Post sale, you take your old registration (the form Hung eluded to) out of the plane, fill it out, check the export box and send it in. With this the FAA removes your old plane from the current U.S. fleet of registered planes and the population of the fleet shrinks again.
On a side note which does not impact you but could impact the buyer since you indicate it may be for export:
When Cindy and I bought Mighty Mouse in Alaska, we had to fly through Canada making numerous landings within their borders. Canada does not recognize the pink, temporary 8050-2 copy as proof of ownership......they required the official FAA registration that we all carry inside our planes at all times.
That's Canada and that was two years ago. What they do elsewhere is an unknown to me.
It's the Aircraft Registration Application (form 8050-1) that has to be done in triplicate and you keep the pink copy in the aircraft until you receive the printed one from the FAA. The Bill of Sale (form 8050-2) is sent to the FAA for recording, but no copy is required to be kept in the plane. The FAA doesn't really care who owns the plane. They only require the plane to be registered.
Just to add a bit - the Form 8050 is to transfer the registration. The pink copy says it's only valid in the U.S. (this is an FAA thing, not a Canadian requirement). This, presumably, is because the form is temporary and has not been vetted by the FAA yet. So the aircraft is not allowed to leave the U.S. (and FAA jurisdiction) until they've had a chance to approve the change of registration and issue a permanent registration slip.
As Hung said, the FAA doesn't care about ownership, only registration. In fact, I believe their paperwork still has wording to that effect ("registration cannot be used to determine ownership" or some such phrasing).
As a seller, make sure you also fill out and send in the change of ownership form that Hung posted a picture of earlier. This is the FAA version of turning in the plates when a car is sold. Sometimes the new owner doesn't register the airplane in their name right away. Or, if it gets exported to Bolivia (for example) they'll never tell the FAA. So it's always incumbent on the seller to tell the FAA that the plane has been sold.
It wouldn't hurt to do as Gerardo mentioned and write up a Bill of Sale and keep a copy for yourself. If nothing else, it'll help show the local taxing authority when the airplane left your possession so that you don't continue to get billed.
The pink copy says it's only valid in the U.S. (this is an FAA thing, not a Canadian requirement). This, presumably, is because the form is temporary and has not been vetted by the FAA yet. So the aircraft is not allowed to leave the U.S. (and FAA jurisdiction) until they've had a chance to approve the change of registration and issue a permanent registration slip.
My opinion is that the pink copy is valid only in the US because it's not a vetted document (anyone can fill one out but not send to the FAA) so other countries will not accept it.
Quote
As Hung said, the FAA doesn't care about ownership, only registration. In fact, I believe their paperwork still has wording to that effect ("registration cannot be used to determine ownership" or some such phrasing).
It wouldn't hurt to do as Gerardo mentioned and write up a Bill of Sale and keep a copy for yourself. If nothing else, it'll help show the local taxing authority when the airplane left your possession so that you don't continue to get billed.
According to info on the FAA site [faa.gov] , evidence of ownership such as a bill of sale is one of the required documents for registering a plane. The FAA's Bill of Sale (form 8050-2) only has signature of the seller. It protects the buyer because the previous owner signed it.
To show that you no longer own the plane because somebody bought it, you'll need to make up your own document where the BUYER signs it.
First, say "Will take payments" in your ad. Take a fair down payment and hold the plane until paid off, with a no-refund clause in the sales contract -- and buy pays costs of tie-down or hangar.
Second, drop "Certified for IFR flights (pitot static system check)." You already told them it's IFR.
Third, say something like "Classic Omni-View and square tail configuration, this series only made for 2 years!"
Fourth, "thousands less than buying a cheap 150 then doing an overhaul!"
If I had the money to play with, I'd buy it, but there is absolutely no way. I consider the Omni-View with square tail the best 150 series they made, and adding the Tokyo tanks pushes yours way into Condition WANT IT!
If I had the money to play with, I'd buy it, but there is absolutely no way. I consider the Omni-View with square tail the best 150 series they made, and adding the Tokyo tanks pushes yours way into Condition WANT IT!
I've been looking at your plane for a while but my runway is too short. I have 3 different people coming today and another 2 tomorrow to give me bids on extending the runway and if I do that I would be very interested in buying your airplane.
Just trying to say, if you can afford it, don't get desperate and give it away to the Bolivian guy just to get rid of it, there's always someone else around the corner looking.
Thanks for these suggestions. I made some changes to my ad. I'm still considering the financing - it seems safe enough but it could become stressful. Maybe I could consider with a club member.
Thanks for these suggestions. I made some changes to my ad. I'm still considering the financing - it seems safe enough but it could become stressful. Maybe I could consider with a club member.
The real stress is on the buyer, if you write a sales contract which specifies when payments must be made, what the minimum payment must be, and that all money is forfeited if a payment is missed beyond a certain time frame. Who knows, you might end up with half the money AND the airplane!
Thanks for these suggestions. I made some changes to my ad. I'm still considering the financing - it seems safe enough but it could become stressful. Maybe I could consider with a club member.
The real stress is on the buyer, if you write a sales contract which specifies when payments must be made, what the minimum payment must be, and that all money is forfeited if a payment is missed beyond a certain time frame. Who knows, you might end up with half the money AND the airplane!
I've done this with houses and it works beautifully. The trick is to get a really good attorney to write the contract, which the buyer pays for since it's a convenience for him. States have different laws regarding what has to be done in what amount of time. If you agree the monthly payments have to be on the 1st with 10 days maximum before it all defaults, even if you agree in a contract, some states might say that you had to give him 15 days and when you go to Court it all gets thrown out and you end up losing. These types of sales work but with a good attorney.
3 quick questions: 1- When was the aircraft painted and was it due to some kind of hangar rash? 2- When was the engine overhaul done and how much has it flown in 2015? 3- Do you have a hangar available to perform the pre-buy inspection?
I'm definitely getting my runway extended so I won't necessarily be needing a 150/150 making me very interested in your airplane. Of course my problem, as I'm sure many here that would love to buy your airplane, is the distance so the logistics add up.
Aside from the slow economy, and soft aviation market, and not everybody is a pilot or wants to learn, and the fact that you can rent a 150 locally for $89 and hour, all of this makes this a luxury purchase, and not many people have a spare $15k laying around.
But aside from all of that I know there are people actively looking to buy an aircraft, I know because I'm one of them however I think distance is the main reason why you haven't sold it. It's an awesome plane for the price and I'm still very interested but when you add up all these costs it seems to me that people want to buy something closer to home.
For example this is what I'm looking at if I decide to buy a plane in the Northeast:
Day 1: Fly up there commercially with a trusted A&P to do the pre-buy inspection. Have you do a flight test with my A&P since she has a many hours in a 150, she used to own one. That night go over logbooks to prepare for the pre-buy and start it if you have a hangar available to do it.
Day 2: Complete the Pre-Buy Inspection and order a Title Search which I suppose hopefully should be done by that afternoon or next day. She's also an I-A so if anything pops up in the inspection she can handle it.
Day 3: If it's all good you get paid, we sign everything and we leave for Texas.
Day 4: If all goes well we arrive in Texas after about 11 or 12 flight hours if we get a good tailwind. If anything delays us then another night in 2 hotel rooms.
Day 5: Finally arrive at home !
That's 3 or 4 nights in hotels for two, food, airline tickets for two, a few days of A&P charges. It can quickly add up to between $2,000.00 and $3,000.00 of additional cost. Am I missing anything?
Last edited by Carlos_Rodriguez; 12/29/1504:41 AM.
1. I believe there was a hard nosewheel landing in 1989. That is when they repainted I believe and put in a remanufactured engine. The pilot\owner who was an engineer had a heavy duty nose gear put on.
2. A remanufactured engine installed in 1989. I flew it 15 hours last year.
3. I have it in a community hangar, and the prebuy inspection can be done there.
People have been asking how much the useful load with a full tank of gas. The empty weight as configured is 1077. With 36 gallons it weighs 1293. So that leaves a useful load of 307.
There are new mufflers, I had the carb replaced. When I first purchased I had to replace the wheels. I also had a spin oil filter adapter installed. On the last annual, the seat rails passed but barely. They will need to be replaced on the next annual. They are screwed down and not riveted. It has a new Gill sealed battery (not the older one but the new improved one)
I just spent a few minutes on Trade-a-plane's website. Based on what I saw there, your price is VERY GOOD (actually too low). I suspect with the sale that fell through, it has just put you at a time when not a lot of people are looking for airplanes. I hate to see you leave our nest here, but good luck. Be sure to recommend the Cessna 150-152 Club to the new owner.
Yup - you have it exactly right. The price is too low and I will be losing on it considering what I paid for it and the parts I put into it. But I do need to sell.
Of course my problem is the distance so the logistics add up.
I think I know a guy from Arkansas who bought a 150-150 with LR tanks and the Horton STOL kit up in Alaska a couple years ago.
And about 10 years ago, I think that same guy and his wife flew commercially from Arkansas to Sacramento to inspect a 152 which was a total bust but two weeks later he was in Cleveland where he found "the right" 152 and flew it home.
East Texas to New York just ain't much of a hike for the right plane.
As you shop around looking at planes, you're going to kiss a lot of frogs as you search and search. There's a lot of used junk out there, AKA the Sacramento 152.....they are everywhere.
Ideally, a buyer finds the right plane in his own backyard and life is good but the odds are against that. As the fleet continues to age, finding "the right" plane is becoming more difficult as the passage of time is taking its toll.
I don't have a horse in this race but if you pay the 2k - 3k price of admission for a plane that's being sold under "market value" (whatever that is) and you end up buying that plane, don't you end up with a plane that is close to the perceived market value?
Maybe your biggest risk is spending the 2k - 3k and end up walking away because you found an issue or two that can't be resolved, AKA Sacramento again?
The cost of your pre-buy using your IA is going to remain consistent regardless of the 150/152 she inspects. It's the travel expenses that are the wild card.
Now, if the plane was brought to you and the inspection goes well, you buy the plane and pay for his ticket home (or split it) and you're money ahead??
Just my 2 penny's worth which buys food for thought.
I know the same guy Jim does. He's a smart dude and his suggestions are good.
I found Wilbur in Cleveland Ohio. The owner agreed to meet me halfway so my mechanic and I flew up one morning, spent a few hours with the airplane and flew back that evening. If I remember correctly, he charged me about $300. So, along with the fuel that I spent, it was a pretty cost-effective way of evaluating the airplane.
Although I would have liked to have purchased him for a lower price, I figured that each time I go look at an airplane I'll spend hundreds or more doing it. It can really add up. The most important thing is to get a good airplane. I figured that the price of the airplane down the road wouldn't matter to me that much.
[quote=Carlos_Rodriguez] Now, if the plane was brought to you and the inspection goes well, you buy the plane and pay for his ticket home (or split it) and you're money ahead??
....and my CFII brother is still available for a couple weeks to ferry-fly for expenses only.
Congrats Anthony. My runway has finally passed the bidding process and they're starting the extension tomorrow morning. I'm super glad you sold it even though I'm a little sad I wasn't faster and bought it myself. At least it's staying in the club!! Congrats again.
Of course my problem is the distance so the logistics add up.
I think I know a guy from Arkansas who bought a 150-150 with LR tanks and the Horton STOL kit up in Alaska a couple years ago.
And about 10 years ago, I think that same guy and his wife flew commercially from Arkansas to Sacramento to inspect a 152 which was a total bust but two weeks later he was in Cleveland where he found "the right" 152 and flew it home.
East Texas to New York just ain't much of a hike for the right plane.
As you shop around looking at planes, you're going to kiss a lot of frogs as you search and search. There's a lot of used junk out there, AKA the Sacramento 152.....they are everywhere.
Ideally, a buyer finds the right plane in his own backyard and life is good but the odds are against that. As the fleet continues to age, finding "the right" plane is becoming more difficult as the passage of time is taking its toll.
I don't have a horse in this race but if you pay the 2k - 3k price of admission for a plane that's being sold under "market value" (whatever that is) and you end up buying that plane, don't you end up with a plane that is close to the perceived market value?
Maybe your biggest risk is spending the 2k - 3k and end up walking away because you found an issue or two that can't be resolved, AKA Sacramento again?
The cost of your pre-buy using your IA is going to remain consistent regardless of the 150/152 she inspects. It's the travel expenses that are the wild card.
Now, if the plane was brought to you and the inspection goes well, you buy the plane and pay for his ticket home (or split it) and you're money ahead??
Just my 2 penny's worth which buys food for thought.
Jim
Yes, some people even buy it sight unseen. I sold my experimental to a pilot a few states away. He only saw the pictures I sent him and all the logs and everything I had scanned. He sent me $10k deposit and when the guy with the delivery trailer showed up to take it apart and deliver it to him he called the buyer and told him everything looks like in the pictures. So the buyer wired the other $10k into my bank and I helped take it apart and load it.
I would NEVER do that but some people are crazier than even me.
If after I've seen the logs (seller can scan and email them for my IA to review) that takes a lot of unknowns off the table. Then with pictures or even better Facetime or Skype we can practically do a pre-buy over the internet. By then it's really easy and while I order a Title Search the seller flies it here and in a matter of a couple of hours to make sure the A&P looks in places we haven't been able to look and that's it!
I'll not only pay for his trip back home, he'll stay in my motorhome and save on hotel plus he can eat with us. If you ever visit me you'll see that if my girlfriend opened a restaurant I wouldn't have to work anymore. *** As soon as the runway is ready every club member is officially invited to visit. ***
Of course, as you say, there are lots of crappy planes out there and I'll ad there are lots of scam artist sellers. I was looking at an awesome plane last night and today I found an NTSB report stating substantial damage, but the ad says No Damage History. I even found another website where the plane was offered for sale just 3 months before the crash. It's got a beautiful new paint job and interior now but who knows how they fixed it. That takes a good IA and pre-buy inspection.
This buyer won't be disappointed. I will miss flying this airplane - it fly's really good and is in great condition. I had a thorough pre-buy done when I got it.
I'm sure yours is good and the buyer will love it, if not I wouldn't have so interested in it. I just snoozed and lost it because I was debating longer runway & 100hp 150 or leave runway as it was and 150/150. Well I ended up with both a runway extension project and looking for a 150/150.
The picture is not detailed enough to reveal that MASKED MAN's identity and remains a closely guarded secret.
Or was that a ferry pilot, hired by the Masked Man, at the controls. Perhaps.... Perhaps the plane can be tracked VIA Flight Tracker and followed to it's new home.... hmmmm.....
Or was that a ferry pilot, hired by the Masked Man, at the controls. Perhaps.... Perhaps the plane can be tracked VIA Flight Tracker and followed to it's new home.... hmmmm.....
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